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 Manifest Destiny (Discussion)

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dowpride
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:29 am

nope. none in our city. unless you are on diplomatic duties. or at least, i would assume so, as we would not go near your cities
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Lokloklok
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:20 am

Whispers to blaze

I could sneak you in in shadow legion armor. There would need to be payment of course. And if you screw me Apophis eats your entrails.
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dowpride
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:37 am

I dont encourage any knight hood order to enter our city without permission. any. at all.
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Wolfarmin
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:48 am

or they will drink ur blood
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dowpride
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:13 am

i resent that. im not saying we would attack you but... its a dangerous place. accidents happen.
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Sir Aranor
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:19 am

Knights remember our creed.

"I shall not be moved to excess, neither in feast nor carouse. I shall remain humble in the face of all that I may accomplish."


We shall not go near that city of sin, and frankly I trust the KOTE to handle the situation there, theyve been there the longest, the citizens would get uneasy if they saw us there. We would be a liability to them.


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Kamos
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:29 pm

SimplePlan96 wrote:
300th post Very Happy

Then like that the Griffons will get the most seasonal fund from the crown among all the orders. As they are the kings bodyguard and never been known to piss the king off. Look at Kamos pirat

Hey the bro was askin for it.
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:14 am

So, now that you've all had some time to look over the rules, do they make sense? Do you need anything explained? Remember I would like some actions up in your chapterhouses by Sunday, so that I can process them all.

Just one note of caution, the 10k starting funds are just that, don't expect more handouts like that for a while so make those funds last / count.
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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:33 am

Mordred wrote:
Just one note of caution, the 10k starting funds are just that, don't expect more handouts like that for a while so make those funds last / count.

Keynesianism for the win! Spend it all at once, the ECB will buy your debts Razz

Perhaps we could post some more examples to illustrate the rules?

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dowpride
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PostSubject: Temp file dont post   Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:29 am

(this is going to be awesome. you know what guys? how bout instead of making a new mod, you make a whole new game based around this!) seems like a fair plan m'lord
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Azlanek
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:13 am

So assuming one would want to gain influence in a province that already has a castle or a town. Such a province would not count as 'unowned', since it has a lord, right? Entry level to such a province is four. Does that mean you simply leave out level 1-3 if you move into such a province, or do you have to amass enough influence to reach that level, so basically moving through level 1-3 just without getting anything in return?

Can you build a Stockade there anyway? Or do you have to wait until you can build a chapterhouse on lvl 4?

I am also not yet sure I understand the garrison rules completely. I failed to find how many men are needed for what castle/town. So I have no idea what 25% of the garrison would be. Does it refer to the 200, or did I miss something?

Units:

Firstly...it looks a little confusing to me at the bottom and the colours seem to be wrong at some points. Is it supposed to look this way?

Costs for amour, training etc always refer to 100 men? So costs total is what we have to pay for 100 men?

Can we buy troops indefinitely? Even knights?
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:25 pm

You need to build influence up from 0 - 20 (Citizen) in order to get control over an owned province (with castles / towns already built) and build the related Chapterhouse. Note however that this action can be sped up with the use of Vigilantes; they were purposefully created to increase influence gain in settlements, though at higher cost. You cannot build anything in areas over which you have no control.

Garrisons : You can see the numbers required on the "Inputs" page of the info sheet. Number of men garrisonable is listed under "Capacity".

Units : Colours look OK to me? I realise that some are off, but i've tried to get them to reflect Forum IDs. Don't worry about the bottom notes, that was more for me to keep track of what I had charged and why. Unit Costs are for 100 men units, though I have already determined individual costs under "Indiv Cost". There is currently no limit to the number of troops you raise, but bear in mind that upkeep can mount up very quickly. If Orders begin to field silly numbers of troops I will beef up costs / upkeep, all of this is subject to change, this is the first draft of these rules after all!

I would like to introduce a limit to Knights though, something to discuss further I feel. How about you are only allowed to upgrade Retainers into Knights (and must pay the full Indiv Cost. for them!)? This gives a reason (beyond simple economics) to continue to field both troop types.
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Sir Aranor
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:31 pm

Are all retainers squires, or can we train them to be more versatile?

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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:44 pm

They are squires. You can train them however you like, just let me know who and to what so I can rejig their costs.

If you want to "create" a new troop type, this is possible too but please, please, please keep this simple. I do not for example want to see Archers of Dawn, simply because you want your own bowmen, go recruit some Pendor Archers or hire some Mercs. Basically if it is a troop type which makes sense to you Order (Dawn Light Lancers for instance) and does not already exist in Pendor form, then I will consider it.

I very much reserve the right to say no.
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:48 pm

Note :

Influence rules updated to reflect taking over occupied provinces (those with towns or castles already present)
Building rules updated to reflect when you may not begin building

Also, I may have mentioned elsewhere that "Citizen" level is required to take over an occupied provinces, this was incorrect, you need "Outsider" influence to stake a claim.
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SimplePlan96
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:00 pm

Lokloklok wrote:
Whispers to blaze

I could sneak you in in shadow legion armor. There would need to be payment of course. And if you screw me Apophis eats your entrails.

LOL! I want to be sneaked in with a Anaconda Armor just like Apophis Very Happy

dowpride wrote:
i resent that. im not saying we would attack you but... its a dangerous place. accidents happen.

Yeah, accidents happen, to assassins and such of course.
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Azlanek
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:05 pm

How will garrisons work in say a a medium city? It has a capacity of 1000, so you would have to put 200 men there in oder not to loose one influence. Would you still get one? What about a large city then, when you would need more than 200 men there?


Also I would suggest maybe to tie this somehow to the influence level or to enforce this rule only for Burgher level and above. It seems kind of hard that you have to put more than 100 men in a place as soon as you gain citizenship. For meager 10% and no direct control over new buildings. I do not think that kind of obligations are fair at that point. An order is not yet a great power in the city. She should not be responsible to defend it either.

Of course, I see it through the eyes of a Grandmaster who has to put knights and retainers there at first. Maybe this is exactely what you intended to force us to invest in cheap troops, like you said Wink.
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Ahhh my bad I thought I had already tied it to influence level, I thought that I had.

5% Burgher
15% Minor Noble
25% Aristocrat

And getting cheap troops is entirely expected Wink
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:37 am

Note :

Regular Training Ground now required Militia Training Ground
Estates now require Regular Training Ground

Info Sheet Updated to reflect the above.
Order's added to the "Unit Cost" tab of the Info Sheet.
Specific Tier Costs removed from the "Unit Cost" tab to prevent confusion.

Outpost status updated to reflect that only a Chapterhouse I may be built
Outsider status updated to reflect that the full building list is now available

Movement by sea now allowed when both towns have a port
Info sheet updated for Ports to reflect this new benefit

Rewrote the "May Skip to Aristocratic" Outsider rules to better reflect what it actually means.
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:59 am

Note :

Garrions rules extensively re-written to become clearer and give more benefit to maintaining large Chapterhouses (thanks Iskar).
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Azlanek
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:47 pm

In the thread it is said that a stockade as a production modifier of 0.1. On the info sheet patrols have 0.1 and a stockade has 0.2.

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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:35 pm

It is as shown on the sheet.
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Azlanek
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:29 am

Are player characters included in the available knights, or are they "extra"?
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Kamos
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:54 am

Personal opinion says players aren't in those numbers.
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Azlanek
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:02 am

I would agree, just trying to make sure. Its not that big of a deal, but since we are already juggling numbers, I thought this question could not hurt.
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