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 Manifest Destiny (Discussion)

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dowpride
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:48 am

well, obviously i would never use actual nukes. that leaves nothing. as we are pendor's military strength, we should bring pendorian control to all the feuding states surrounding us.
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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:19 am

Like one country for each order and then we can carry on with our internal struggles supported by the might of whole kingdoms? "Nohseru has sacked a Santaran city, putting everyone to the sword. - Why? - Some grandmaster got in an argument with another when drinking together."

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dowpride
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:21 am

not really, as i am a massive centerilizationist. i would just take over the other countries for the king or my grandmaster.
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:38 am

I've spent the better part of 16 hours over the past two days updating the Meta Game, and have just sent the latest copy to Iskar for some constructive feedback, and hopefully a more mathematically sound pricing structure but here's a quick update;

1. The economy has been dramatically simplified, each hex produces a single value which is known as "Supply". Each unit of supply pays the upkeep for a single building, or a set number of troops (denoted as a regiment, ie 25 Order Knights, or 100 Militia. Both require 1 supply). Additionally, each Order will set a global tax rate, this will convert Supply to Denars, which can be spent on buildings, upgrades, trade, troops and other more... nefarious activities.

2. Hex value is a set figure, and can only be raised (or lowered) in three ways; faction relations (primarily dependant on your RP actions), roads, and influence.

3. Influence is not only an economic factor, but each level now comes with additional powers and bonuses you can employ, for instance diplomatically reducing a rival's influence, or offering claims on neighbouring titles. Orders can now truly become a part of the nobility, and the higher titles are really quite powerful.

4. Massively simplified building list; all buildings have had their upkeep (now just 1 supply each), and economic benefits removed. Instead they all offer material benefit, such as resources (Granite, Lumber, Flax, etc), troop capacity, espionage defence, etc.

5. Resources now have definite uses;
Gold - Adds to the Hex Value (already implemented)
Marble - Required for High tier buildings.
Lumber - Required for buildings, ships and militia.
Granite - Required for buildings, fortification upgrades and town upgrades.
Spice - Required for Knights and Order Knights.
Iron - Required for regulars, Knights and Order Knights.
Flax - Required for ships and regulars.
We still need to determine the precice number required in each instance, but needless to say getting these resources is very important, and producing them can provide a very real economic weapon against your rivals. In addition to this, raiding your rivals lands to cut off their supply, or better yet steal it, becomes a necessary strategic option.

6. Cities and some hexes come with strategic bonuses, some of which being very powerful / rare. Orders will want to take these bonuses for themselves, if only to prevent their rivals getting their hands on them...
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dowpride
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:00 am

that sounds awesome! good job mordred!
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Sir Aranor
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:08 am

Well done!

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Marcus the Shadow Fighter
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PostSubject: This is temporary   Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:48 am

Doesn't the Almerra region have Iron?

I'm pretty sure it used to have Iron.

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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:57 am

Please post here Marcus, not in that other thread. Yes, I have overall reduced the resources produced by the Orders to make them more strategic and sought after.
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:22 am

With the various options at higher levels of influence, what restraints are in place to keep hexes from becoming too easily defensible and influence-static?
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:31 am

The majority of the high end powers are all offensive-based;

The idea is that you use Propaganda, Claim Title, Sphere of Influence or Ducal Claim to reduce an opponents influence to Courtier or Lord status, while building your own influence up to that level. Once a Courtier there you can Usurp Title, and become the aristocratic ruler.
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:33 am

Yes, but that offense is... counter-offensive. >.>

Basically what I mean is those abilities seem rather powerful (Expulsion, arrest, command of city guard), and I'm concerned that it would prevent an 'invader' from ever having a real chance of success in taking a hex once the defender has built up their influence. So I guess my question is what limits are in place to stop those from being overwhelming... which I see as a problem due to the potential to have hex control be as static (absolutely unchanging) as in the last version.
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Sir Aranor
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:38 am

Isabel Tenorio wrote:
Yes, but that offense is... counter-offensive. >.>

Basically what I mean is those abilities seem rather powerful (Expulsion, arrest, command of city guard), and I'm concerned that it would prevent an 'invader' from ever having a real chance of success in taking a hex once the defender has built up their influence. So I guess my question is what limits are in place to stop those from being overwhelming... which I see as a problem due to the potential to have hex control be as static (absolutely unchanging) as in the last version.

Theres a thing called war.

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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:39 am

Yes... and if war is the only way the change hex control, what is the point of an influence system?
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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:44 am

To represent how much of it you control. And there are more means than invasion to gain influence in a hex despite your opponents efforts at throwing you out. Be creative.

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Sir Aranor
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:44 am

Isabel Tenorio wrote:
Yes... and if war is the only way the change hex control, what is the point of an influence system?

To build up hexes really. the system makes enough sense for me, why make it easier for attackers to take hexes out of war? It makes sense for the hexes you put the most time in to give you substantial defences.

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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:46 am

Espionage will also be further examined, and this will likely be given a rather significant boost.
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:03 am

Here is the InfoSheet to be used with the new rules; http://www.stormwind.co.uk/image1/InfoSheet2.htm

Note, that it is continually being tweaked and updated (well not so much, but from time to time changes need to be made). I am hoping that Aranor will post up a better Google Docs version later, but for now it makes a good supplement so you can get a better understanding of what is occurring.
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:22 am

That's all the rules I am doing tonight. I will send each Order's reports now so that you can have a look at what to expect. Will try and get the last 3 sections up tomorrow.

First orders will be due on Sunday!
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:04 pm

Please note;

I had forgotten that different Regiments cost different amounts of supply, and not just 1 as was previously reported. The amounts are as following;

Militia - 1 Supply
Regulars - 2 Supply
Knights - 3 Supply

Order troops cost the same amount as indicated previously;

33 Retainers = 1 Supply
25 Knights = 1 Supply
20 Centurions = 1 Supply
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Psychozoa
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:21 pm

Can anyone redirect me to the post about recruitment. I mean the one how to calculate how much troops you get. I already know the modifiers and the bonus modifier.

Thanks in advance

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Ser Varys
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:38 am

Is there anyway to see what buildings have already been built in which provinces? I looked through my report and the Manifest Density thread and haven't found anything of that sort, except for the few standard things like Castle level and such. If there is and I just didn't notice it, sorry Embarassed

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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:39 am

It's all in your report, just scroll to the right.

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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:41 am

..Why haven't I thought of that Embarassed

Thanks!

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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:47 am

Is there a way how we can calculate what an increase in Taxrate will give us in money and cost us as supply?

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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Discussion)   Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:18 am

Good question! I've been trying to work the math out for that for a while but so far have failed. Iskar? Any ideas? It would need to be from information on their Report. I would rather not release the whole spreadsheet to all Orders if possible.
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