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 Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S

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Marcus the Shadow Fighter
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PostSubject: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:44 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXyLrTRXso&feature=related

Quote: "In a stunning move that has civil libertarians stuttering with disbelief, the U.S. Senate has just passed a bill that effectively ends the Bill of Rights in America."

Quote:"The National Defense Authorization Act is being called the most traitorous act ever witnessed in the Senate, and the language of the bill is cleverly designed to make you think it doesn't apply to Americans, but toward the end of the bill, it essentially says it can apply to Americans "if we want it to."

Quote:"This bill, passed late last night in a 93-7 vote, declares the entire USA to be a "battleground" upon which U.S. military forces can operate with impunity, overriding Posse Comitatus and granting the military the unchecked power to arrest, detain, interrogate and even assassinate U.S. citizens with impunity."

Read the video description and watch the video.


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ScholarOfTea
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:47 am

Whatever. I can always move to Canada. I have citizenship there
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dowpride
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:00 am

ohhhhh canada! we stand on guard for thee... hi folks! here in canada our government doesnt allow for the random assasination and imprisonment of its populace! come live here!
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Sir Celdiur Moriendor
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:16 am

Jesus man!! What the hell is wrong with the people running the Western world? Evil or Very Mad
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Lokloklok
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:33 am

At least i have an out. In two years I'm going to Mongolia for the peace-corps. Might stay there if this continues.
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Aldric of Marleons
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:42 am

WTF has our government come to. It's such BS they are doing this. Our government is shit. Time for a revolution.... Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:31 am

I urge you to be careful with just believing what a guy with a guy fawkes mask says. First of all, why can't they show their faces to protest against this law? The US is still not Syria, Iran or China. Then, if you look at the corresponding wikipedia article, it names 'Russia Today' as its only source for the alleged content. 'Russia Today' is however said to be controlled by the Kremlin, the resident of which has his own agenda...

Of course there are always two sides of the coin. There are other articles on wikipedia, regarding this subject which tell of the debate concerning this law, and it seems some senators even argue that US law allowed for detention of US citizens even before the latest defense authorisation act.

So one must always be careful when gouvernments enhance the competences of secret services and military, saying it was to fight inner or outer enemies. But one must also be careful when people who are too afraid to show their faces address you as 'brothers and sisters' and urge you 'to open your eyes'. The US is still a free country and whoever has something to say, can just walk out on the street and do so.

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dowpride
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:39 am

im still glad i live in good old canuckleland
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Lokloklok
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:07 am

I dunno how legit this is now that ive looked around some.. I live in a state that generally doesn't like big goverment and i haven't heard one person or acquaintance talk about this.
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Knight Silaric
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:29 am

Quite a startling surprise indeed, to come upon. Hopefully this does not continue for a long period of time, and by "this", I mean the trend the government has followed lately, of taking more and more freedom away from the people. If I were to suggest anything, I would suggest a re-written version of the constitution, complete with all revisions and formed as one, except in modern speech, with no more controversies as there still are today. That might eliminate the root of many issues. Another idea, would be to stop funding projects overseas, and worry about our infrastructure as to build our economy up again. The U.S. has a lot of issues to deal with right now, including those abroad, because we seem to enjoy meddling in the business and affairs of other nations.
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:41 am

The Posse Comitatus Act is the United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) that was passed on June 18, 1878, after the end of Reconstruction. Its intent (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) was to limit the powers of local governments and law enforcement agencies from using federal military personnel to enforce the laws of the land. Contrary to popular belief, the Act does not prohibit members of the Army from exercising state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order"; it simply requires that any orders to do so must originate with the United States Constitution or Act of Congress.

The statute only directly addresses the US Army and the US Air Force. It does not refer to, and thus does not implicitly apply to nor restrict units of the National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States. The Navy and Marine Corps are prohibited by a Department of Defense directive, (self-regulation,) not by the Act itself.[1][2] Although it is a military force,[3] the U.S. Coast Guard, which now operates under the Department of Homeland Security, is also not covered by the Posse Comitatus Act.

As of December 3 2011, the Posse Comitatus Act is under threat of repeal from the National Defense Authorization Act.[4]
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:05 am

Ok everyone is blowing this out of proportion read this article about sections 1031 and 1032:

http://www.rollitup.org/politics/492644-national-defense-authorization-act-sections.html

It clearly organizes and defines that we still have our freedom.

Obama will most likely veto it in my personal opinion.
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Aldric of Marleons
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:47 am

Obama's gonna definitely veto it. He doesn't veto this, then I guess we know who's not getting reelected next election. We should still have a revolution...just for lols Smile. That and our political morons represent corporations and not the people.
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:33 am

I can't wait to see how America turns out in 20 years. Hopefully nothing bad..
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Laisha
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:35 am

If the projected growth of the national debt is any indication...well, I wouldn't hold my breath, if I were you.
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SimplePlan96
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:43 am

Great. I will enjoy my coffee all the way in Malaysia Wink
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Sir Aranor
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:43 am

Obama's gonna veto it definitely.

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Saeros
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:27 am

After what I've seen here in Europe, the only countries I would like to live right now are Canada and Norway.

Anyway, I thought the patriotic act allowed those things already.


And guys, I also study future ethics. I can assure you that in a couple of years things will get so complicated to define that the whole world will have serious problems with the laws and a revision of constitutions* will be necessary. Today even the first article of the universal declaration of human rights is problematic to define.

Quote :
here in canada our government doesnt allow for the random assasination and imprisonment of its populace

haha! Canada is great. But according to SM Alpha Centauri, the Christian States of America, a conservative fundamentalist dictatorship, will have annexed Canada around 2066.

*. A problem only for those who have it**.

**. England doesn't.

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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:06 pm



The post above mine made my mind divide by 0. Can you try that again?
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:39 pm

If that bill is getting passed then this would be my reaction... http://i.imgur.com/KX9kc.gif
and I needed to share this pic cause it's hilarious.
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Sir Aranor
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:52 pm

saerossaeros wrote:


constitutions*
*. A problem only for those who have it**.

**. England doesn't.


Incorrect. (not in a mean way)

Britain does have a constitution, but unlike France or the US, it is not written down in a single document.

A lot of the 'unwritten' constitution of Britain can be found in the:
-Magna Carta
-the Bill of Rights
-the Act of Settlement
- the Parliament Acts.

However the bad part about this constitution is that there is no constitutional laws. That is, laws that can't be changed without special legislature.

But there is a constitution, but its not like the good ol' 'merrican constituion Laughing

For other cases like this (no written constitution) look at New Zealand and (I think) Israel.

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Marcus the Shadow Fighter
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:41 pm

Yeah.. and I have friends in the states, and they DO talk about it. They also say that every day in the newspapers there's like "orange day" "green day" "red day" which means a different state of danger, "now you can use the subway safely" etc.

There's going to be a revolution

Also, why is it not out from your freedom that they can arrest, torture, interrogate, or assassinate you - and it'd be legal?

"Go to work, send your kids to school"

"Follow fashion"

"Walk on the ravement, watch T.V"

"Save for your old age"

"Obey the law"

"Repeat after me: I am free"


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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:57 pm

Yeah, i see a revolution possible soon. Its gotten to the point where our politicians outright lie to us and we eat it up and just keep electing people from the same two parties. Thats barely even a democracy IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:58 pm

Marcus the Shadow Fighter wrote:
Yeah.. and I have friends in the states, and they DO talk about it. They also say that every day in the newspapers there's like "orange day" "green day" "red day" which means a different state of danger, "now you can use the subway safely" etc.

There's going to be a revolution

Also, why is it not out from your freedom that they can arrest, torture, interrogate, or assassinate you - and it'd be legal?

"Go to work, send your kids to school"

"Follow fashion"

"Walk on the ravement, watch T.V"

"Save for your old age"

"Obey the law"

"Repeat after me: I am free"


In this case you sound incredibly ignorant and so do your friends. It is called a terrorist threat level...... the chances of an attack on american soil. so for example on holidays it tends to be elevated or like the anniversary of 9/11 or the day after bin laden was killed, etc. Nearly every competent country on earth has something similar.

And if you don't want to be controlled Norway is an absolutely horrendous choice as is any Scandinavian nation. America for better or for worse is incredibly free and unregulated compared to other countries oon everything except like drugs.
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PostSubject: Re: Say goodbye to freedom, citizens of U.S   Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:01 pm

If this country actually has a violent revolution...I would not want to see the results, frankly. Revolutions almost always end with chaos, dictators and a loss of freedom, which is definitely not better than what we have now. Many, if not most, politicians may be corrupt, but at least they can be voted out when you actually get the people's attention. There's a framework to remove them in the Constitution. That's why it's there. Problem is that people neither educate themselves on history and issues nor do they think for themselves and it's the reason they don't see how corrupt so many of the current leadership is, be it Democratic or Republican, Congress or Presidency. We're told to parrot useless facts instead of learn why they are important. Anyway, before I get of on a four page tangent, I agree. I can see the trajectory of the nation heading toward revolution...I just fear the outcome should it get to that point and God help us all should it actually happen.

I generally don't like to engage in these sorts of discussions, but sometimes...
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