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 Suggestions for improving RP.

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Kamos
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:57 pm

I've just had a taste for meta gaming. I'm not really worn out so much as I miss the opportunity for great things.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:56 pm

ok so is the problem the linking between RPing and the metagame, ive got an idea on how to link it, but it will take me a little bit to write up, but i think it will be the solution we need, it should also allow ALOT more freedom for the RPers, but give me a few hours to make.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:02 pm

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So heres my idea, we make a whole new section for the metagame, and have it interactable with by the players. Heres how it would work:

Chapter movements is a week by week basis of each orders movements and commands, not the outcome but the commands. . Each chapter does there respective movements and place them in on every week.

Map
is just the up to date map, any important announcements and any court discussions with the king.

The Field
The field is the important one, it is also on a week by week basis like the Chapter movements, however it is for the Roleplayers and is where they undertake the orders given to them by there grandmasters. It will allow:

- players to roleplay in quick little scenarios in respect to the metagame
- players to act with lots of freedom
- inter order struggles to happen very frequently without special threads to be made in the missions
- people can rebel if they want to Twisted Evil

So lets do a quick example for Griffons:
A plan is decided amongst themselves, Darlion writes up his orders for Chapter movements in week 1. "The entire order is recalled to Sarleon to instegate a military Coup of Mordred." Then in The Field for week 2 the topic "Military Coup" is made and all the griffon knights post in that about there actions.


Do you think this would link the RP and the Metagame?
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Saeros
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:56 pm

Perhaps it's time to update reports in the tavern, so that all have an idea of what is going on in the kingdom. This can be done immediately and without too much thinking.

Another idea for the short-run: how about installing some sort of Pendorian Games? (I think I've mentioned this before). This would promote inter-order RP and force players to deal with the others. Choose a city, select which games will be part of the competition, establish a prize, and let the rest follow naturally.


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DrSane
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:28 pm

Problem isnt that there is enough to do, more that there is to much and its getting too intensive for the GM's to moderate, i think there looking for a way where players can post at will without the GM's need to interact for them.
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Saeros
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:41 pm

One thing does not exclude the other. Why not let, for example, Marcus, Psychozoa, me or you take care of that? These names are pretty active and very bent to roleplay. If it's not relevant for lore, there is no reason to restrict moderation to grandmasters.
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DrSane
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:48 pm

Sure i'd have a go, how bout you set up a practice mode in the Tavern and the devs can see how it goes, outside of current events. How would you play these games, im intruiged?
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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:15 pm

(@Mordred) Honestly I see no way to really simplify economics and influence without abolishing most of their constituent aspects. In fact, in all orders either the grandmaster or his 2nd-in-command have thus far shown interest in and ability for the meta-game. The ones doing the meta-game can supply the others with its most important effects, so everyone can discuss politics based on recent news. We're already doing this among the Silvermist and it works quite well, I think.

What needs to be done though is getting the RP and the meta-game synchronous, as with the current situation, where one meta-game turn (i.e. a real life week) is an ingame month theoretically while the events are progressing by the scale of several ingame hours per real life week, interactions between the two utterly breaks immersion.
I fear we will have to do with this for the time being, but as soon as the events are finished we could do the following:

Change the meta-game turns to a two-weekly rythm, thus lessening the burden on Mordred's shoulders, and encourage the grandmasters to make up their own order events depending on what they want to achieve, thus creating RP that is mainly player based and should be able to cover the respective ingame time within two weeks.

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Saeros
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:18 pm

To DrSane:
1. Describe the games.
2. Make people describe their characters in terms of combat expertise/fighting styles, etc.
3. Pit people against each other and let them RP their fighting, strategies, teamwork, etc., based on that information.

This must obviously be better thought, but some quick ideas for a start:

- shield bash: two teams separated by several dozens of meters. Team A throws heavy stones at team B. Team B must run through the gap and reach team A before their shields break.
- castles: four teams occupy four “castles” inside an arena (actually only two siege shields and an elevated platform). They must defeat the others with clever tactics and teamwork.
- generic duels: raw, bloody pit fight. Not for the faint of heart.
- poetry reciting: the one who makes the funniest joke or weirdest rhyme wins. must find a better name for this one.
- etc.

There is plenty of space for character development and general RP. You can fight honorably or dirty; can be a sore looser; can sacrifice yourself for the team; can make a temporary deal with another team in order to fight a third, can show off for the king, etc.
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DrSane
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:58 pm

Coolios, should we try with a practice one in the tavern?

Also Mordred, if you want the orders to follow objectives, how bout you give them secrete ones. Say the Dawn is told that there are heretics in Hex's A through to Z and they have to capture them to purify of heretics. Or the Gauntlets have to capture all the forest hex's of Laria, whilst the Silvermisters have to defend them. Something so the orders can have a way to practically follow there goals.
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Psychozoa
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:20 pm

I like the Idea of these games very much. But you would still need someone to oversee the actions happening, I'm not talking about GM's but just normal players who "host" the "Game". All we need is a separate thread in which everyone who has the time can start games. And the one hosting the game is the Moderator for this game. He makes the rules and tells you about the outcome of Battles. This would mean little to no work for the Moderators.


ps: There should be a price at the end. A sword, some gold, prestige for yourself or your order. Which then "COULD" influence the Meta-Game.

For example: You (Legion) fight with Honor through all your duels and then loose the last one against and Eventide knight because he kicks sand into you face or uses poison on his weapon.

That "COULD" mean you gain 5 more troops for the next week and the eventide would gain 500RP(because they won the duel) but loose 10 troops for recruiting the next week because they fought "dirty".

This way everyone would behave a little bit, but you wouldn't loose everything because you fight dirty. And it would show that if you win a tournament you would really "gain" something.

That would also mean you just can't start 5 Tournaments every day. It should be restricted to one per 2week period or something like this. So it wouldn't spiral out of control.

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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:57 pm

I also think that part of the problem is the King, I know that a number of Orders feel unwilling to commit to their internal objectives / goals just incase the King drops the Pendor Bomb on their heads.

I've been trying to play him as unintrusively as possible, but perhaps this role should be more official; going to Crusader Kings now, imagine that Pendor has a "Limited Crown Authority", whereby the different nobles can and do fight each other to try and tip the political and strategic balance in their favour and the King sits aloof of these politics, drumming up his levy rights as and when a serious war breaks out (ie a foreign invasion).

As such there should be the guarentee that the King will not get involved in Order politics unless it threatens the stability of the entire kingdom (ie, a coup or full-scale rebellion).
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:09 am

Sorry for double posting, I realised that I missed an entire page of the discussion!

DrSane wrote:
Coolios, should we try with a practice one in the tavern?

Also Mordred, if you want the orders to follow objectives, how bout you give them secrete ones. Say the Dawn is told that there are heretics in Hex's A through to Z and they have to capture them to purify of heretics. Or the Gauntlets have to capture all the forest hex's of Laria, whilst the Silvermisters have to defend them. Something so the orders can have a way to practically follow there goals.

Sure, go for it! The space is there to do it in the tavern. Let me know if you want a special board for it. Can you DrSane and Saeros give it a go to get one up and running? Should help a lot to keep things rolling in between the events.

Iskar wrote:
(@Mordred) Honestly I see no way to really simplify economics and influence without abolishing most of their constituent aspects. In fact, in all orders either the grandmaster or his 2nd-in-command have thus far shown interest in and ability for the meta-game. The ones doing the meta-game can supply the others with its most important effects, so everyone can discuss politics based on recent news. We're already doing this among the Silvermist and it works quite well, I think.

What needs to be done though is getting the RP and the meta-game synchronous, as with the current situation, where one meta-game turn (i.e. a real life week) is an ingame month theoretically while the events are progressing by the scale of several ingame hours per real life week, interactions between the two utterly breaks immersion.
I fear we will have to do with this for the time being, but as soon as the events are finished we could do the following:

Change the meta-game turns to a two-weekly rythm, thus lessening the burden on Mordred's shoulders, and encourage the grandmasters to make up their own order events depending on what they want to achieve, thus creating RP that is mainly player based and should be able to cover the respective ingame time within two weeks.

Good points there Iskar, and I agree that it would be a shame to lose these elements but I am trying to make the whole process more accessable. The economics would be far more difficult to change. I am hoping that resources become less important economically as supply increases, thereby flattening out the massive profit that they currently make. I am however thinking of ways to increase their strategic use, so that they are actually used for something useful ingame, because at the moment their only use really seems to be selling to the King for cash. They then become a strategic asset, and Orders will fight for control of them.

Yes, the meta game definately needs to be tied in more to the RP, and I really like the secret objective idea someone above mentioned, whereby I can muddle in with the Orders and give them an actual raison d'etre with goals and rewards for achieving them. With this I can also quite easily introduce inter-Order conflict, and with the above changes to the way the King is perceived hopefully get some skirmishes going.

The two-week cycle would certainly help, what does everyone think of this?
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:33 am

I don't see any problems with two-week cycle. It has been done a few times before due to your hurries and it would probably make things easier for you.

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Saeros
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:41 am

Mordred:

Quote :
They then become a strategic asset, and Orders will fight for control of them.

I'm thinking about Civilization. Why not make existing resources special? Prime timber instead of timber; high quality iron; fresh water sources (where does Pendor's fresh waters come from, anyway? who controls them?); highly fertile soil (for crops); well-bred horses (what happens to the Clarion Call if XXXX stops selling them horses?).

Also unique buildings can become strategic: Radiant Cross hospital, Poinsbruk library, Cez/Valonbray harbor, Saleon's academies, Janos' vineyards, etc.

There could also be masters, exceptional in their fields, and unique. They would have different personalities and would work for a given order for money, ideology, fame, or by force. Thus the orders must make the higher bid, convince him, capture him, promise him fame and glory. We could have, for instance, a master healer, master weaponsmith, master armorer, master horsebreeder, master trainer, master assassin, etc.
Then you can convert them into lore material by giving them a background: A rogue mettenheim blacksmith; a Jatu prisioner; a foreign healer, a former Snake Cult assassin.

Obviously, their work can be quantified: +1 to armor, +1 to damage, +1 to movement, morale. And if you put them into the game, you can be sure: everyone will fight for them.

Also: two-week cycle works for me.


Drsane and Psychozoa:

If you want, I can help you with that. I can help designing how things should work out, the rules of how RPing will proceed, and how stuff will be calculated. We can even make a test among ourselves first.

I just can't commit myself as its main-host for a while.

Which brings me to my next topic, i.e. possible temporary absence:

In 12 days I'm leaving old Europe and going back to warmer shores (literally). There will be lots of account-closing, de-registering and farewell-saying everywhere, followed by a 20-hour flight and the ensuing jetlag. Then there will be house-looking, friends-visiting, baby-blessing, uni-enrolling and other generic time consuming stuff. So, my presence here will be erratic for some weeks, again. Pravenstern, don't worry, I'll keep posting things in your event. XXXX will never take XXXX from XXXX (nor XXXX, for that matter). Freedom or death, I say!
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:51 am

I find your idea of master-NPCs very interesting. I have been creating the characters that were in Clear Sky company for myself. For the fun of it of course. However, if there were this kind of NPC characters, they would have to have personalities. Like: Master X is traumatized by Noldor or Character Y is an Order of the Lion fanboy and thus hates the Griffons. Then there is of course the fact that some of the Player characters possess these traits...

There is always the problem of things getting overcomplicated and the work to create these kinds of things might get very high.

And yes, XXXX shall never XXXX the XXXX and XXXX. XXXX them to death I say. We will never XXXX!


Psychozoa and DrSane
And if if you need help, I can also offer a hand. Nothing major, it is your project, but small things.

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Saeros
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:09 am

Jorg Brandbart has just arrived at Windholm. Word has it that he fled from Mettenheim for unknown reasons, probably having to do with a lord’s woman. He is also a blacksmith. He managed to pay for his stay indefinitely at the Broken Branch tavern after forging a thin stick of iron that held a wall that was about to fall. The thing was impossible to make: so thin, so long, and at the same time so strong. It’s clear that he has a gift.

He is looking for work at a worthy company. He does not care about politics, but he does have his tastes: a large furnace with the best equipments available, and a small harem from Pendor’s finest.


There you have it. Personalities will work better if they do not restrict who can use the masters (a noldor-hater will never work for silvermists, etc.). For the gms it would be:

- he will work for whoever pays the most and gives him most credit. Also, he wants women and high-quality working materials.This means he will need high quality iron, for instance. Oh, but the Legion controls the only souce of high quality iron! etc etc, you get the picture.

Two weeks later, Silvemists send a trader to negociate with him. Griffons send a group to capture him and bring him as a slave. Eventide makes a contest of Most Beautiful Pendorian Virgins in order to attract his attention. And the Dawn installs a fake tribunal so as to condemn him as an heretic, the fine being to work for Windholm until the end of his life.
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Psychozoa
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:51 am

Nice Story =)

Could I get permission to open a whole new Thread? I don't think its possible with only one Thread. We would need multiple Subthreads like: Roster(Who is Participating, and what are their "stats"), What "Games"(Swordfighting, Joust, Archery Contest, Teamfights), and then for each "Game" a new subthread, or even for each battle a new subthread.




As well a Temporary Absence.

from 23.03 until 15.04 I'm on Vacation, and If i get some Internet I will try to write something, but I can't promise anything.

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Sir Aranor
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:43 am

I could offer a hand, if you would have me.

just an idea...

Why not a grand tournament? In Sarleon?

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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:05 am

I'm willing to offer help as well. I'm probably better on the logistics side than RP from what I have tried though Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:57 pm

I could help with the tournament thingy more on the rp side of things though and I would love to be the first to be apart of the test. This could be fun while waiting for the mini events to end.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:30 pm

I thought it was Saeros' idea.

Anyway i guess we'll start a topic in the tavern and see where it goes from there. Anyones welcome, and also, test all the boundaries you can think off so we can work out how these will play out. Like sneaking a slowing poisen into another contestants drink or hobbling there horse, be dastardly
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Saeros
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:45 pm

Ideas have no ownership. And I won't be coordinating this, at any rate.

I think a whole new board is better for organization (called "Arena"?). It should be open to everyone. Separated being better because we will need different threads, something like:

--> Character's descriptions
--> Main thread (IC)
--> OOC talk
--> Game 1 (IC)
--> Game 2 (IC)
--> etc.
--> Test thread (to be deleted later)

And putting these in the Tavern board will be confusing.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:33 pm

Just my thought, Could someone open up such Threads or give permission to do so?

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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for improving RP.   Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:12 pm

Admins only. For the while, we can use that one in the Tavern (will do it now).
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