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 Test area (must be deleted later)

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Saeros
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PostSubject: Test area (must be deleted later)   Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:16 pm

Hi. This is the test thread for the games. We will make experiments here. Have a good day.
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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:48 pm

A Long time it has been since the Last great Tournament. The unification Wars left all of Pendor exhausted. The moment our Great King Mordred called to arms all Knights of the Realms left for war and the Arenas stayed empty. Out of the turmoils of War great Warriors rose and many perished the next Battle. Now in this time of Peace we call for the Greatest Warriors of all of Pendor for the first Great Tournament in Years. You will fight in the Honor of our Great King Mordred and you will prrof your worth in Arenas of Sarleon.


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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:53 pm

I’ve thought about some things and I’d like to throw them out for consideration.

- As you said, the king proclaims that the first unified Pendorian games will soon take place. All cities can apply.
They will need to fund a special building (Arena), a prize for each game, and the lodging for the teams.

Very simple: the order with the best-looking offer wins (which kind of prize, how good are the quarters, how much gold it is willing to spend).

METAGAME: hosting the event grants intel on all participant orders; boost in city’s prosperity; boost in its trade routes; boost in order’s influence on the the given Hex.

- Apart from the prizes, winners also get the title “Champion of Pendor”, which they can add to their characters’ names whenever they wish (e.g. “Tristan, Silvermist Ranger and Champion of Pendor”).

- the king himself will offer something else as a prize (so there will be two).

- whether Noldor are allowed is up to the king.


I'll post something else shortly.
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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:55 pm

So let's test. I would offer myself as the Moderator and person in the Background calculating your attacks and chances to hit. Let's start with Melee 1on1.

Regarding Weapons and Armor: very Simple, everyone gets a shield

Your have a choice of two different Armor types. Medium and Heavy. Heavy has better Armor Value but you are a bit slower and exhaust faster than Medium Armor.

Weapons. Sword: Fast Attack bad against shield
Mace: Slow attack good knockback
Axe: Good against Shield, normal Attack speed



criticism and comments apreciated

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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:58 pm

I'm doing combat calculations at this precise moment. I'll post them in a couple of minutes, then you see which parts of mine you would like to use.
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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:03 am

Thanks, for the time we should keep it very simple. It should be based more on the RP factor. The ground rules should be set, that is correct but players get a bonus if they come up with good tactics. Not just "I bunny hop towards him and slash wildly around with my Greatsword" [I'm referring to Mount and Blade MP]



btw: nice idea that the Citys/Orders battle about who is allowed to do the Tournament =)

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Last edited by Psychozoa on Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : editing)
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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:00 am

The business of hosting: some ideas.

I’ll start with combat, because this will be the most difficult part to manage.

Combat (must be quantified):

DESCRIPTION here, RULES for hosts are down there at the end:

Will take place in private messages (see explanation below). Afterwards, it will be roleplayed by the host and/or player for everyone else to see the result. In a similar manner as Aranor’s Duel thread in the TW Forum.

Equipment:
The arena has a weapon rack with: regular shield, tower shield, spear, sword, two-handed axe, hunting bow (10 arrows), javelins (3). No one wears any armor at all.

The first action a PC takes when in the arena is to choose his or her weapon. Each one has its particularities and players must develop their strategies from them.

tower shield: heavy, slow.
spear: range, no shield.
2H axe: extra damage.
bow; javelins: distance
regular shield: -
sword: -
No horses, which will make things incredibly complicated.

Calculation (only the GMs will have to worry about this):

Health: Wound Points (WP)
Each player has 2 WP. Each successful hit cuts down one WP (so you can take two). 0 WP means knockdown.
Hardier orders have 3 WP (Dragons, Legion, Gauntlets)
Silvermists and Radiant Cross have 1 WP.
Noldor have 5 WP.

Damage (Dm):
Weapons remove 1 WP.
Axe removes 2 WP.

Speed (Sp):
Determines who strikes first (note that only one player strikes per round. the one who loses the speed test does not strike at all.)
All have base Speed of 1.
Shield -1
Tower shield -2
Axe -1

Example:
- Red and Blue attack each other. Red has an axe, and Blue a sword-and-shield. Blue hits first and Red’s attack does not count.
- Red attacks Blue. Blue sprints back. Since Blue is faster, Red misses, not needing a skill test to check that.
- Red attacks Green. Green has a spear. Both are equally very slow, but Green has longer range. Green hits Red.

Skill (Sk):

Determines hit or miss (which is the same as “success or failure of deflection”). It is a simple check between Sk of both players, where the higher wins.

A=B: parry, nothing happens.
A>B: hits.
A<B: misses.

All players have base skill of 1.
If the character’s description had “exceptional” at something, that gives the player +1 with that weapon. Order specialties must also be accounted for (+1). In practice, players will usually have 2 Sk.

Note: this is where RP hits harder. RPing can drive this number up or down, depending on how you describe your actions. Therefore, RP is essential for this part.

E.g.: Red (2 Sk) and Blue (2 Sk) fight.

Red aims at Blue’s thigh (more difficult). Blue swings wildly (easier to hit enemy, bad for his own defense).

The host judges this as:
Difficult aiming: -1 Sk.
Swinging wildly: +1 Sk if he is the one to strike first; -1 defense if he strikes last.

Therefore, if Red wins the speed test, he will get -1 penalty (difficulty) and +1 bonus (because blue is being reckless).
But if Blue wins the speed test, he will get +1 bonus to his skill (he is slashing everywhere).

Hosts will make up this on the run and according to the context. There is no static rule.


Question: “Oh, but isn’t that too stiff? Wouldn’t Green always win, since he has a spear? Or wouldn’t the faster player always win the speed test, giving the slower no chance to strike?”

- No. We will use the 1d3 variable (http://rolz.org/). Therefore, all values are actually flexible, in the ±3 range.
Having your 3 Skill against a 1 Skill only means that there is a higher probability of overwhelming the enemy, but it is still not certain that this will be enough. You may also lose. Example:

3 Sk → die rolls 1 = 4
1 Sk → die rolls 3 = 4
Ergo: even match.

Naturally, also this could happen:
3 Sk → die rolls 3 = 6
1 Sk → die rolls 1 = 2
Then we would give the winner the opportunity of RPing an epic finishing strike.

Besides, always remember: your RP will change these numbers.


Last edited by Saeros on Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:11 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:02 am

Summary of how it works:

1. Players PM the host with their moves.
2. Host converts the RPing into numbers.
3. Calculate speed: who hits first.
4. Calculate hit: hits or miss.
5. Calculate damage and other effects.

6. Provide both sides with results.
7. Both sides RP their moves publicly and show their intentions to the next one.
8. Repeat.

Important note to RP factor:


Combat calculations are purposely simplified. After all, the point is to roleplay. RPing your performance can give or take you points. Hosts will make simple calculations, then let you know the results of your actions. Afterwards, once you know whether your character hit or missed, you can RP accordingly.

This is necessary because you will be facing other players. You cannot say “I hit you in the eye”. This must be broken down as:

a. “I try to strike him in the eye.”
b. Let me see that.
c. Yes, you did strike him in the eye.
d. “I make a feint, change the hand I’m using the sword, and stab him in the directly in the eye. Seeing him cringing in pain, I raise my sword for a finishing chop aiming at his head.”
e. Let me see that.

Only point (d) will be seen by the public.

Another example:
Saeros PMs Psychozoa: “Dude, your character missed. The opponent stepped aside. Roleplay this IC, and then send me your next move”.

Psychozoa IC: “Jareth put all his strength in that strike, but the opponent just stepped aside. He fell down, face in the sand, with Blue looming over him. So powerful was that strike, that his sword slipped from his hand and flew all the way over the pond. Swordless, barely seeing, and ashamed in front of the crowd, he decided to embrace the situation, which could hardly become worse.”

Pyschozoa PMs Saeros: “I’ll grab and bite his leg.”


Extra:
Do not stick to the rules. There is room for improvisation.
Yellow, a mad fellow, picks two swords from the rack.
Green picks up a tower shield. However, he doesn’t use the shield, but places it at the ground and kicks it against the first opponent coming his way, who falls down with its weight, struggling to get rid of it.
Red picks up a huge axe. Instead of charging, he starts hacking the bridge in the middle of the arena, trying to isolate the enemies across the moat while his teammate shoots arrows at the poor, defenseless opponents.


...sketchy as hell and wholly untested, but I think this may be useful.
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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:08 am

.....Wow....you sure have experience in this.... I have to copy this somewhere to keep it close...... =)

awesome

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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:10 am

So we need 2 Testsubjects willing to participate and battle against each other.

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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:41 am

With a smirk Iskar grabbed a spear, shortly eying the shields and other weapons but finding them too clumsy for his style of fighting and he wasn't good with swords either. Having lived in the forests for quite some time he was very agile, however, and that was what he hoped to help him win the fight.

Iskar enters the arena. Being a Silvermist he is rather slender, having only 1 WP. He is no more than average with close combat weapons, thus only 1 SP for combat. But being an exceedingly skilled archer and ranger he has +2 on speed.

1 WP
1 SP
3 Speed
special: higher range due to spear

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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:13 am

Sir Azrael had heard that a "test fights" were being held in Sarleon to prepare for a bigger event. Seeing no reason to be left out due to his small holiday from academic duties, he signed in. Looking at the weapons pile he came to the sad conclusion that there were no Twohanders. Instead he opted for the standard Griffon attire; Shield and Sword.

Azrael is an otherwise standard Griffon but is somewhat more speedy than his fellow knights.

WP 2
Speed 2
Skill 2

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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:47 am

on the matter of order hp, i think dawn and eventide should have 3 as they devote their whole lives to fighting as well. also, look at the armor size. it is some of the largest of all the orders, which means they are better physically then most.
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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:01 am

Marcus has excellent weapons, skill and speed, but is not as strong as other legionnaries.

Thus: 2 Speed, 3 Skill and 1 WP.

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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:04 am

Very well, then.

Iskar, Azrael and Marcus pass by the doors and enter Sarleon's practice arena from three different directions. The place is very plain. It is surrounded by stone walls and filled with sand. There are some bushes growing here and there, but it is very clear their presence is more by neglect than by purpose.

The Arena master, a fat, bald man, with a mighty mustache, is eating an apple. He looks at the three participants and says something unintelligible. It probably means "start".


----------------------------

Matter of health: I thought about that. I fear that all orders would have to pump up the WP, because they are all quite resistant, in different ways. Even Silvermists, too, aren't as weak as I suggested: they crawl in forests, climb trees with armor, can stalk for hours without moving, pass weeks eating roots in the wilderness, and so on. And drawing a bow with Power Draw 7 isn't the easiest thing as well.

I thought Legion and Gauntlets because they also have to walk with heavy armor, not use horses. The discipline (legion) and ascetism (gauntlets) also count positively in that matter. Knights of the Dragon goes without saying, I think.

Perhaps a bonus to skill would be better than to health. We will see.

EDIT: Marcus, which weapons did you pick? You can choose between tower shield, regular shield, sword, spear, bow, javelins, large axe.
EDIT: Azrael, there is a two-handed axe.


Last edited by Saeros on Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:31 am; edited 4 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:07 am

[this is only a calculations post for the hosts:]

So, this is what we have (please note I reworked some numbers):

Iskar
Spear
1 WP
1 Skill [character trait/penalty]
3 Speed [character trait] [order trait]

Azrael
Sword and shield
WP 2
Skill 2 [griffon specialty]
Speed 1 [character trait/bonus] [-1 due to shield]


Marcus*
sword and shield
WP 2 [order has an average of 3; character trait reduces to 2, instead of 1]
Skill 3 [character trait] [legion specialty]
Speed 1 [character trait] [-1 due to shield]



*. Note to myself and hosts: we see that Marcus will have a pretty high score, which could lead to accusations of unfairness. I consider his stats plausible, since he is constantly getting into battles, and also because, since the beginning, he has RPed consistently as a bellicose warrior.

This would not be plausible for a scholar, a healer, or anyone else with a different historic, such as Iskar or Azrael. So we have to keep that in mind in order to avoid excesses from other people.

EDIT: also: life is not fair, anyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpPYthzM0XU

EDIT II: I had forgotten to take off 1 Speed from Marcus due to shield. Stats are now correct (23.03.2012).


Last edited by Saeros on Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:12 pm; edited 15 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:12 am

Sir Azrael likes twohanders (swords) due to his main weapon being one. He is most skilled with lances but seeing that there are no horses...

As with health, let's test how this works out at first.

Edit. I don't mind Marcus' higher score, it has been given a plausible reasoning.

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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:37 pm

what bonus to griffons eventide and dawn get, cause they are dismounted, we have a disadvantage to other orders.
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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:08 pm

Marcus uses his trusty Masterwork Empire Broadsword alongside with his shield, a combination he is very used to indeed.

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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:59 pm

[so this is how it may work for now:]

- You may RP some introduction, such as how you spotted the others at the arena, and how you are going to manage the three-man fight.

and/or

- You send me, Psychozoa and Drsane a PM with your intended actions. We will answer shortly thereafter with the results, and then:

- You will be able to RP the results.


HERE a sample of possible actions. Do not restrict yourselves to them:

"I charge Blue directly with my spear. At the last moment, I will unexpectedly slide down and try to trip his legs."
"I walk against Blue with my shield high, sword hidden behind it. I will throw my sword at his face."
"I stand firm and assume a defensive stance, looking closely at what the enemy is doing. I will do that until I see a breach in his guard."
"I break my spear in two and attack Blue with the resulting two sticks, one in each hand."
"I walk toward Blue. I will attempt an overhead strike at his head."

---------------------

About bonus:

This is still not fixed. We must solve the combat procedures first, because it is from that that all other things will stem. Only after that we will work on balance.

Ideally, an archery and horse-based competiton would be nice. However, I don't know how to make them work in text-based RPG. They work in videogames, but we don't have the interface to make them work here.

That said: games are fair to some extent. If we did a horsemanship competition, it's obvious who the winner would be (Dawn). The same with archery (Silvermists) and crossbows (Gauntlets). So the initial idea was to reduce it to the most basic form of combat.

It is your opportunity to RP and prove that your order isn't a bunch of guys who need horses to fight competently. You can take that as a challenge and prove otherwise to the whole kingdom. Likewise: can you imagine how nice would it be for a Silvermist to defeat an Immortal in close-combat? RP must not necessarily be completely balanced.

Naturally, there will be other games - fighting is just one of them. I'm looking forward to what creative ideas other people have.
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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:47 pm

This is Starting to get some good shape, I really like it, and the idea behind it.

I will try to answer the PM's in time but I will leave tomorrow for vacation so I can't promise anything. But I will try to read everything to keep updated as good as possible.

@Saeros: Have you done this before? He seem to know very much about this.

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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:00 pm

No. I just think a lot about things.

Have a nice Semesterende!
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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:21 pm

how about a battle of riddles between players, and if you lose, i get to eat you!
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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:49 pm

@Saeros: ich war noch nie Student...bei mir heißt das Urlaub =)

Should we as well tell the participants who writes first? That would make sense especially when more than two are fighting.

eg: PM for Player 1: your write first, you hit his shield with such force that he stumbles but doesn't fall

PM for Player 2: your write after Player 1, you are able to block the blow with the shield but are able to remain defensive position even though it was a tough blow

PM for Player 3: your plan succeded, the other fight against each other and you see from the distance how they fight



I think it would look odd if player 2 or 3 write first, you would miss some kind of action, and you can react better to the RP of the player before you

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PostSubject: Re: Test area (must be deleted later)   Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:58 pm

We can try both ways and see which one works best. At first, my idea was:

1 everyone writes at the same time with intended actions.

2 we calculate the result

3 we PM all three with the results

4 all three RP the results in whichever way they want in a public post.


Azrael has already written me a good one and I'll give him the results as soon as Iskar and Marcus make their move.
Iskar as well.

EDIT: DrSane, Psychozoa: apologies for having taking the liberty to calculate this first two rounds without asking you. Once they are over I'll post my thoughts, and then you could do the next ones to see how it feels.


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