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Sir Arceon
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:48 am

I just finished the main quest for Oblivion and the DB questline was quite fun for Oblivion. Ive been wondering though if the Deadra are a group of races I guess you could say, like the Deadric princes and the Dremora. Then do the Aedra have lesser forms like the Dremora?
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Saeros
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:53 am

Finished Skyrim. It was far too quick for me. Shortcuts to everything, no dead-ends, no real dangers for the player. Now that's official: I'm too old for this new generation of fast-paced games.

A bit more patience and boldness of the devs could have made Dawnguard and the main quest truly awesome. Baldur's Gate-grade awesome.
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:56 am

That depends on which general theology you subscribe to. tongue

Aedra literally means 'our ancestors' while Daedra means 'not our ancestors' to elves/Mer. So in a sense, any character in TES that isn't Daedric is a kind of 'lesser Aedra.' Which is why they tend to hate the world as it is, because they are lesser mortals. They would rather unmake the world and achieve their old state of being as simply weaker spirits, rather than be trapped as the weak mortals they are now.

There are more vague ones, like the Jills of Akatosh, that might be a kind of lesser Aedra in the sense that you mean. Of course, this was trampled on by certain retcons that were made for Skyrim.
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Sir Aranor
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:57 am

Saeros wrote:
Finished Skyrim. It was far too quick for me. Shortcuts to everything, no dead-ends, no real dangers for the player. Now that's official: I'm too old for this new generation of fast-paced games.

A bit more patience and boldness of the devs could have made Dawnguard and the main quest truly awesome. Baldur's Gate-grade awesome.

Thats why im stickin to morrowind and oblivion. Idk who they had write the skyrim questlines, but it sucked.

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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:58 am

I would put base Skyrim as above base Oblivion.

Neither can compare to the wonder that is Morrowind. /nudge>Mordred
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:58 am

I think they might have fired the guy, there is a position open for writing quest lines at Bethesda Razz

EDIT : Yes, I tried to apply but none of my browsers will support their crappy application system and they refuse to give me a direct email to their recruiter. Their loss.
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:00 am

They wouldn't like you. Wink

You just need to get in touch with MK for a collaborative 'interactive novel.'
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Sir Arceon
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:02 am

I plan on getting both Morrowind and Skyrim soon, and from what I here Morrowind is a great game, even better then Oblivion which was a pretty damn good game. Plus what theology are you talking about, man or mer?
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Saeros
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:04 am

Skyrim's main quest was conceptually great for me, but it may be because I associated it with the Ultima series'. What bothers me most is that you jump from major event to another, without regard to the natural progression of things. "BOOM, Alduin appears!". A while later you're talking to Ysgramor and fighting the dragon to the death.

The same thing with Dawnguard. Conceptually great, but too fast for the epicness that it entails.


...I wonder what would happen if Bethesda had made a game of the Aeneid.

EDIT: I applied to Blizzard. They needed native Brazilian writer. Never heard from them Sad


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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:05 am

The Merish mindset is that the Aedra are ancestors, or more accurately, that the Mer were like the Aedra once. They wish to undo Lorkhan's work so that they might return to that state. That's the one I was talking about.

The Man perspective is that the spirits in the Mundas were too weak to ever fully form or realize themselves before Lorkhan tricked the others into creating a world. They want to maintain the Mundas for that reason. Otherwise they think those like them would never be able to come into being, and never achieve CHIM or otherwise preserve themselves between each Kalpa... which is the ultimate goal.
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Sir Arceon
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:10 am

So basiclly the elves are working to become immortal and the humans are content to stay on Nirn?
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Sir Aranor
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:13 am

Isabel Tenorio wrote:
The Merish mindset is that the Aedra are ancestors, or more accurately, that the Mer were like the Aedra once. They wish to undo Lorkhan's work so that they might return to that state. That's the one I was talking about.

The Man perspective is that the spirits in the Mundas were too weak to ever fully form or realize themselves before Lorkhan tricked the others into creating a world. They want to maintain the Mundas for that reason. Otherwise they think those like them would never be able to come into being, and never achieve CHIM or otherwise preserve themselves between each Kalpa... which is the ultimate goal.

May I ask what you are talking about?

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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:15 am

The Aedra (the 9 divines) and the Deadra (the deadric princes like Azura and Sheograth) and the theologies of the humans and elves and how humans are content to be mortal and the elves think Lorkhan tricked them and want their immortality back.
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:16 am

Kinda. Also keep in mind that these are generalizations of entire peoples, and the entire population isn't in a position to act or really care about these viewpoints.

The fundamental part is that the Mer think pre-Nirn is the good state of being, while Men disagree. Mundas was created by the et'Ada, the old spirits. Those that participated in creation became the Aedra, and those that didn't were the Daedra. Though this isn't always useful info: The Daedra are more powerful than the Aedra. The Aedra cut a part of themselves off, and lose their immortality for it. The Daedra thought this was foolish, and so when they 'create' something, they are really just morphing a piece of themselves. They maintain control over it, and can morph it however they please.

The pre-Skyrim myth is that every so often, Alduin (Akatosh) arrives to devour Mundas, and then it is recreated after somehow. This is just a re-telling of what happens for the et'Ada. The 'world serpent' devours all of them. Eventually some discover a way of surviving through each of these kalpas, and Lorkhan 'tricks' the other et'Ada into creating a world to make this easier.

It does make it easier... for lesser spirits, like Vivec from Morrowind.

@Aranor This is TES lore. Mainly it's the MK written lore. He is no longer employed at Bethesda officially, and they've taken to butchering some of this writing. Amongst lore buffs, what MK says is more important than what is depicted IG, whenever it does happen to conflict. This business of Alduin is one such matter that I've not read about yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:18 am

Quote :
May I ask what you are talking about?

Fictional theology.

Fun fact: from a Classics scholar's point of view, there is no difference of value between fictional and real theology, since both are found in books made by people with specific purposes on mind. Their respective values are attributed culturally.
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:19 am

TES theology is the most interesting 'fictional' one for me. It perfectly blended some of the most important concepts of the generalized 'East' and 'West' mindsets.
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:20 am

May I ask for a link to his stuff?

This is certainly intriguing..

I must also add that Akatosh is not Alduin

EDIT: yeah I did figure it was theology, I just was lost for a sec

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Saeros
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:20 am

Just like the Jedi. Though this one in much less elaborate.
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:22 am

Until Skyrim, Akatosh was Alduin. Akatosh was also Lorkhan. Sithis was (and still) is not a diety. The lore is complicated to logically organize if you're trying to bend it to fit into your own weltanschaaung, it requires a degree of scholarly reflection generally unnecessary for fiction.

http://www.imperial-library.info/
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:31 am

Imperial library!

That's where I read about Vivek and Azura... Good times..

I think sithis is more than just an deity, he's hard to explain

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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:36 am

Sithis is a force of nature. Everything in TES is binary. (MK made a wonderful post just before Skyrim's launch that hinted at it being a digital world.) Sithis is like Gravity, one of the fundamental forces of nature that eventually gave rise to our consciousness, but is not a conscious entity itself.

First there was Anu (Auriel) and Padomay (Sithis). Anu is the concept of EVERYTHING while Sithis is the concept of NOTHING. Between them, they created Something.

Every event in TES was a reaction of that, some of them were just more direct and literal. Which is very important for understanding everything else in the lore. Like Lorkhan's heart being ripped out on Akatosh's orders... exactly like the heart of Zurin Arctus being ripped out on Talos's (pre-divinity) orders. The heart of Zurin Arctus is akin to the Heart of Lorkhan, and both were intended to power Numidum. The oddity here is that Talos usurped the empty position in the hub of the world that was reserved for Lorkhan originally. Talos, in effect, is Lorkhan... yet played the role of Akatosh in betraying Zurin Arctus, his better half.

Basically, the Mundus is in the shape of a wheel. Each spoke of that wheel is one of the Eight Divines, with Talos taking the role of the Hub (Lorkhan's spot). The spaces in between are the realms of the Daedra, nothingness.
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:40 am

Isabel Tenorio wrote:
Sithis is a force of nature. Everything in TES is binary. (MK made a wonderful post just before Skyrim's launch that hinted at it being a digital world.) Sithis is like Gravity, one of the fundamental forces of nature that eventually gave rise to our consciousness, but is not a conscious entity itself.

First there was Anu (Auriel) and Padomay (Sithis). Anu is the concept of EVERYTHING while Sithis is the concept of NOTHING. Between them, they created Something.

Every event in TES was a reaction of that, some of them were just more direct and literal. Which is very important for understanding everything else in the lore. Like Lorkhan's heart being ripped out on Akatosh's orders... exactly like the heart of Zurin Arctus being ripped out on Talos's (pre-divinity) orders. The heart of Zurin Arctus is akin to the Heart of Lorkhan, and both were intended to power Numidum. The oddity here is that Talos usurped the empty position in the hub of the world that was reserved for Lorkhan originally. Talos, in effect, is Lorkhan... yet played the role of Akatosh in betraying Zurin Arctus, his better half.

Basically, the Mundus is in the shape of a wheel. Each spoke of that wheel is one of the Eight Divines, with Talos taking the role of the Hub (Lorkhan's spot). The spaces in between are the realms of the Daedra, nothingness.

A fellow student I see!

I see all the Aedra built on a anuic pantheon, while all the Sandra are on a padomaic pantheon.

I would say more but you've pretty much said everything Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:41 am

Quote :
The spaces in between are the realms of the Daedra, nothingness.

Oblivion!

^linguistic epiphany
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:44 am

Sandra?

The Pantheons differ greatly. For instance, the Nord pantheon is not the same as the Imperial one. Akatosh and Alduin were just one difference, there were several others in the post-Morrowind era. Some differed in character more than others.

Mhm.. Oblivion is nothingness! Each Daedra -is- their realm. Which is why they cannot die, as their realms cannot die. Unlike the Aedra, who gave up parts of themselves, and are now distinct entities. They can die... or perhaps worse, be mantled by some wicked Mortal. (Like Arkay, perhaps.) Or Sheogorath.
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PostSubject: Re: Elder Scrolls Thread   Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:52 am

Quote :
The Pantheons differ greatly. For instance, the Nord pantheon is not the same as the Imperial one. Akatosh and Alduin were just one difference, there were several others in the post-Morrowind era. Some differed in character more than others.

Interesting. So perhaps we could say that what Tolkien did with the evolution of fictional languages MK did with the evolution of religions.

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