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 IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)

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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:54 am

Iskar shook his head at his captain's suggestion. Merzinas raises a valid point there, he said. We have furthermore seen that Azi Dahaka works in secret to entice the minds of men before she sends an invasion force. Tribes that until very recently fought against Pendor might be too likely to fall for her promises of wealth and power if they only joined her against Pendor.

If we want to settle them, we must do it in small groups, separate from each other, where we can be sure that the respective chieftains and shamans support a peaceful integration in exchange for arable land. The dedicated warriors can just as well serve as garrisons or village militia to defend their new homes against bandits and brigands.

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:54 am

"But it is still an island; the spies cannot escape from there without boats. We would need ships patrolling the perimeter of the island, with several faster ones docked on the northern side to allow quick escape. Encircling the island with a fleet would betray their presence to us, and thus they cannot come to the northern side... but the Snakes don't need boats to capture an island, do they?"

He raised an eyebrow at Iskar.

"How do you think they would accept being separated?"

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Saeros
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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:00 am

"Giving them a choice may work positively. Let us make a list of possible places for settlement: Northern Jatu plains, Western Jatu Plains, Mystrock, that island, and so on. Then we let the shamans decide which region they prefer.

Although I still prefer the option of massive settlement of that island. We could keep a permanent blockade from the East. Therefore, goods from Amala would be forced to pass through the customs of Cez, thus improving commerce in the city. Then they would transported by land, under constant surveillance."
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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:03 am

"As much as we want them to integrate peacefully, we would need a figurehead for their people to deal with, someone they trust above petty tribal feuds.

What happened to Wolfbode?"
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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:19 am

"Sir Mastifus is right, the enmities of the North go far too back to resettle the Barbarians there. We need to send them elsewhere in the Kingdom."

Sir Aranor stood to go over the map on the table

"The Barbarians will not take kindly to being resettled on islands. They will most likely feel we are just putting them there so that they can cause less trouble. It is also inadvisable to just settle them on plains, they are not a farming people, look at how the Vanskerries took to seeing their cousins becoming tame. The land would be wasted."

"And if I may Saeros, I would like to add the Fierdsvain as a possible place for them to resettle. The Mystmountain Barbarians would not be alienated by the environment, due to the prevalent warrior culture that permeates the region. As the mystmountain Barbarians are very effective light cavalry and capable infantry, they could serve to help protect the villages and coastal fisheries. With the Vanskerries still a threat, and the watch post system recently put in place, they could be used as reactionary units, to accompany Dawn Knights to respond to any threats. They could be payed in land to provide homes for their families, and food to discourage raiding. Let the poachers become the gamekeepers. Let us remember how much use Kodan Ironsword, a vanskerry, and his company were to Koningur Valdis in dealing with the Vanskerry raiders."

"And Iskar, I do not think that the Steppe lords will take kindly to the Barbarians being inserted into the Feudal system. One of the main reasons Sarleon split from the Fierdsvain is because they could not stand to call the Vanskerries equals. Perhaps in time, when their barbarian blood is washed down, but we cannot put them in power just yet."

"I think we should split up the tribes between the areas. We cannot allow to many tribes to gather together in a single area for settlement."

Sir Aranor looked to Merzinas

"The only figurehead that the Mystmountain Barbarians would follow is a warleader. We should only deal with shamans and chieftains, a central figure is of too much threat to us."

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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:23 am

Iskar smiled lightly at Aranor. The steppe lords would not welcome the Mystmountains? Remember who controls most of the steppes. I need only write a single letter and the governors in our castles will welcome them with open arms and even supply them with timber to build villages.

But your suggestion is sound, too, I have to admit. In general, it would be a question of what the shamans and chieftains can be convinced to do. Perhaps some will prefer the steppes, some the western coast. We can very well make use of both possibilities.

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:44 am

Sir Azrael cursed himself. He thought he could go through the meeting without talking, but then this. After the constable's speech he turned to speak to the council.

"Indeed, it s probably for the best to try to assimilate the Mystmountainees to the Realm diplomatically as a first option. However, remember that there are consequences to this. First of all, to truly integrate the Mystmountainees, their religion would have to be accepted. Vejovis is what brings them together. A god mainly associated with raiding. There may be chisms with the followers of other gods, particularly with the priests.

Still, I have faith that we can create a solution that benefits both parties."


Sir Azrael took a breath before continuing.

"And what comes to possible lands for them, I'd say north is where they should live. They have lived there for centuries, and have adapted accordingly. Also, is there truly need to fully move them to Pendor? There is the distinct possibility of ensuring protection in the mountains for anyone interested in joining Pendor. Those chieftains who can be proven to be loyal could be made vassals in those areas.

However, this is just hypothetical speaking. But I ask you to consider this."

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:49 am

I would support your suggestion, Sir Azrael, but Sir Mastifus pointed out that the populace of the north, that has fought the raiders for centuries, might not accept them kindly as new neighbours.

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:54 am

Sir Azrael smiled.

"Well, is is quite convenient that they are not technically 'new' neighbours then. The main Mystmountain lands are behind the mountains and the land before them is very scarcely populated too. The life of most Ravensternians wouldn't really change. Granted, the animosity between the two people is quite high, to put it lightly. And something to consider if it comes to drawing new maps."

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:05 am

"Perhaps we should vote again, this time on a series of issues: peace and trade treaties vs. the coercive option; assimilation vs. obliteration; single vs. multiple settlements; and settlement in Ravenstern vs. settlement somewhere else."
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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:16 am

Restating my earlier point, any discussion of where we put the Mystmountainers is academic until we determine whether they would agree to our terms, and whether all of them would agree. If we move half the population only for the remainder to continue raiding and be destroyed, then the relocated tribespeople will rise up.

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-The war cry of Baron Walter de Masny

Project X-Ray: A US army project to strap incendiary bombs to bats and release them over Japan. The plan was abandoned after the bats escaped and destroyed a hangar and a general's car in New Mexico.


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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:18 am

"Relocation is not a complete solution. First of course, the point was raised that we've no way of knowing whether they would accept a move at all. It is reasonable for us to assume that unlike myself, they would be wary of making a home in Pendor so far from their native land. The islands are surely the least agreeable then. A few families or tribes may agree to move away from the rest of their people to the less populated regions of Pendor. It is an offer that can be made, but not one we should rely upon.

"That leaves us with the Jatu Steppe or vacant lands in Ravenstern. We should not forget that the Jatu, a people of the Steppe, found it necessary to raid when they lived there. If the Mystmountain tribes were settled there, they would have to be given tribute, bribes, or extensive support. Whichever name you call it, it is merely giving them money not to raid. I would ask, and answer, the question of why bear the expense of moving some tribes to the steppe when we could just pay them where they are? The answer is of course that they would be more easily defeated on the steppe. These warriors may not be civilized, but they are not stupid. They would not accept the Jatu Steppe in any great numbers.

"If we are to try to settle them, nearby land in Ravenstern must receive the majority. And so the Kingdom must be prepared to keep the peace between the good people of Ravenstern and the Mystmountain tribes. The discussion should be how best to achieve that, and if too few tribes agree to settle, how to defeat this menace. The King has made plain the danger of the Snake Goddess, we must not have an enemy at the north when we face one at the south."
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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:51 am

Sir Aranor rubbed his eyes, he looked as if he was annoyed

"If they are increasing their raids, it means that they are falling on hard times. They raid out of necessity, not because they hate us. They held off their raiding for years, perhaps out of fear of a unified realm bearing down on them. The Mystmountain barbarians may be warriors and prideful, but they are not stupid. If anything, we can contact Adonja and her tribe."

"Also, the answer is NOT resettlement in the North. Tell me, Tenorio, what do you know of the North? Do you know its people?"

He looks to Mastifus

"This is the grandmaster of the Dragons. The Dragons have guarded Ravenstern against all threats for decades. The Dragons are the ones who guard the border from the barbarians. Their order was founded after an army of them tried to take Rane. They are the symbol of Ravenstern, and if this says that the people will not be able to live side by side with them, then I believe him, and it is his advice that we should follow."

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:57 am

"Independently of our decision regarding the Mystmountain tribes, there are too many variables for us to foresee its outcome. We may lay out our arguments, but eventually we will have to vote and deal with the consequences of that decision. The tribesmen may even surprise us and be more civilized than we are expecting. Or they may be offended and unleash another raiding streak. There is really no way to know what will happen.

So we should accept the most reasonable arguments. We offer them lands and infrastructure: the Western coast, the Jatu steppes, or the Southern island. They are given two choices: settle within Pendor, or become an autonomous kingdom beyond the mountains. This means that they will either accept to establish themselves in one or more of those lands, or they to remain where they are and never again raid any Pendorian territory. If they do attack, we will make sure that the king and the orders will send their armies upon them - for they will be considered a kingdom, and the entirety of it will have to answer for their actions.

We must eliminate the number of threats that the kingdom faces. Is that reasonable for you?"
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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:04 am

Sir Lucius nodded at Saeros' suggestion.

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"As the plague hit Paris and killed thousands, in England the king held a series of splendid tournaments. In mid-February he was jousting at Reading, then later that month at Bury St Edmunds, where he appeared dressed in a huge bird costume."

"Manny! Manny to the rescue!"
-The war cry of Baron Walter de Masny

Project X-Ray: A US army project to strap incendiary bombs to bats and release them over Japan. The plan was abandoned after the bats escaped and destroyed a hangar and a general's car in New Mexico.


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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:07 am

"Leave your personal hatreds aside, Aranor. Tell me, would you carry off all of your worldly possessions and children to some far away island? As Captain Venator has already said, they would be blockaded and kept at the mercy of those at this table. On the Jatu Steppe they would be vulnerable to the same men. Some may choose to settle in scattered areas around Pendor, of course. The bulk of them will surely not choose to leave their people. Asking them to move to an island is to hope that they are stupid.

"It is Sir Mastifus is the only one that knows the north, that was proven at our last meeting. So, Sir Mastifus, if they were to agree to settlement in the north, how best might peace be kept between your people... and your new people?"
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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:12 am

Aranor furrows his eyebrows

"What personal hatred? Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I hate you. Don't confuse my hatred for your relative as hatred for you. They would never move to Ravenstern, they have their own grudges against them. How many of the current Raiders and warriors do you think have lost sons, brothers, or fathers to the defenders of Ravenstern? They would be safer in the mountains.

And tell me, if the Vanskerries could carry their entire lives with them to the Fierdsvain, and fight back against their former brethren, why can't the barbarians do the same?"

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:17 am

"It is for the same reasons that the Mystmountain may agree to settle in Ravenstern. The Vanskerry would never have accepted moving to the Jatu steppe. They've raided the lands, they know the lands. They do not know the Jatu Steppe, they do not know islands, nor the Fierdsvain. Settle them in the steppe and you have exchanged mountain raiders for steppe raiders... neither land is well-suited for settlements, so why expect a change?
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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:21 am

"Mystmountain Bands have been all over Pendor, hell, one time I even trained a peasant militia for Quay because one of the bands had been plaguing them. You would probably also say that the Jatu only have been in the steppes, did you know that the barbarians and the jatu have had a very long hatred of each other? They know Pendor, they've been all over it, but Ravenstern is the one that they know the best.

And the Silvermist have made great strides in making the steppes habitable, the Steppes have drastically changed since our King took his throne."

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:23 am

Mastifus shook his head from where he was seated.

"We have fought them for centuries, and have in all the time nay determined a proper way to deal with them, I would prefer to let this council make a recommendation to the King. I can only say how the people of Ravenstern will respond if they are settled too closely to one another."

He paused a moment, thumbing his eye patch before continuing.

"However, if they were to be moved to Ravenstern, then the lands to the North-West of Poinsbruk would be my suggestion although I would urge the council to recommend those counties become marches in order to best contain them, still whether they are liable to settle is another question, personally I doubt it but my kenning is on their military tactics, their culture always seemed unimportant to me until now. I would only offer it to select tribes though, they are less likely to raid their kinsmen if they have any humanity at all, so what remains for the Dragons to do is police the boundary between them and the people of Ravenstern proper... and this is all dependant on them accepting at all, the Mystmountains are their home and they are tied as much to it, as I am to Rane."
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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:25 am

"It seems the opinion that Ravenstern lands should be settled by the Mystmountain tribes is not shared by most of us. I suggest we vote and rule out that option as soon as possible."
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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:25 am

Sir Aranor, I do not think we can draw too many parallels between the Vanskerries and the Tribes. The Vanskerries were foreigners and actively settling as well as raiding, wheras the Tribes have are not necessarily looking to settle in other lands. I personally do not believe that they will accept a deal for land, but we must try to avoid a violent outcome.

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"As the plague hit Paris and killed thousands, in England the king held a series of splendid tournaments. In mid-February he was jousting at Reading, then later that month at Bury St Edmunds, where he appeared dressed in a huge bird costume."

"Manny! Manny to the rescue!"
-The war cry of Baron Walter de Masny

Project X-Ray: A US army project to strap incendiary bombs to bats and release them over Japan. The plan was abandoned after the bats escaped and destroyed a hangar and a general's car in New Mexico.


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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:27 am

"Would you suggest that this council recommend the King appoint an emissary to negotiate with the Tribes, and offer them their choices of settlement as deemed necessary? The lands they choose to settle should of course be granted Marcher status. The counties most afflicted with the raiders should be considered as well. If the Silvermist wish to expend the treasure to support them on the Steppe, and the Mystmountain tribes agree to it... let the headache pass from the Dragons."
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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:30 am

I suggest a slow and careful approach to this. We should include the final purpose - settling the tribes within the kingdom as loyal subjects - but recommend extensive measures to prepare them first:

Establish contact with several shamans and chieftains, conclude trade agreements to slowly assimilate them to Pendor and show them that trade might bring them greater wealth and more food than raiding, and research about their tribal culture - maybe his majesty's victories over them have gained him some sort of claim due to their unwritten tribal laws. Remember that the Jatu for example always follow the warlord that defeated their leader. This is how Zulkar and others gathered their huge armies. The tribal cultures might not be too different in that regard.

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:31 am

"Now that you mention it, lady Tenorio, it seems much more reasonable to not decide anything regarding the Mystmountain tribes, but rather send the king a report with the options debated here. His Majesty will choose whatever option he considers best. Shall we return to the matter of reassignment of marcher provinces?"
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