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 The Power of the King

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Sir Haegon
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:16 am

Aelos wrote:

They called him the 'Mad' King and threw him from his throne.

Would Mettenheim and Veccavia support a Mad King?
I see only the Griffons truly defending him, and the madly loyal part of the Royal Army.
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:16 am

A rebellion against the King would have to be framed differently at this time, for sure.

Instead of making it a war to depose Mordred, it would have to be about limiting his power. Something like granting the nobles real title to their duchies for instance, or the institution of this parliament... or simply signing an agreement guaranteeing certain other rights to the nobles. That way it isn't a total war, but something that can actually end at a negotiating table.
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:26 am

Isabel Tenorio wrote:

Edit: Also, would you please clarify, for all our benefits, what the King considers treason? We seem to have some OOC disagreements on that touchy IC subject.

Anything that could be seen as a threat to his position, or the position of the Crown in Pendor. Whether he would always act on these threats is another matter however, in this instance with Aranor, Darlion effectively forced his hand which quite honestly is one of the only ways that they can control the King, heh.
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:27 am

Noted. Speak treason in the King's presence and you might get away. In the Griffon's presence and you're SoL. tongue

Now let's plot that rebellion!
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Tubby McChubbles
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:29 am

Or, he could abdicate in favour of his son, who is controlled by a certain lord. Who is not Darlion.

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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:31 am

Mordred controls Darlion already. In this case, the King wasn't present to determine whether or not he wished to deal with Aranor... so Darlion did as any guard would, and arrested the man speaking treason, forcing the King to deal with Aranor.
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Tubby McChubbles
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:41 am

My point is that was the other typical type of noble rebellion.

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"As the plague hit Paris and killed thousands, in England the king held a series of splendid tournaments. In mid-February he was jousting at Reading, then later that month at Bury St Edmunds, where he appeared dressed in a huge bird costume."

"Manny! Manny to the rescue!"
-The war cry of Baron Walter de Masny

Project X-Ray: A US army project to strap incendiary bombs to bats and release them over Japan. The plan was abandoned after the bats escaped and destroyed a hangar and a general's car in New Mexico.


Spoiler:
 
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:44 am

Wouldn't making him abdicate be a pretty big rebellion?

I see what you're plotting, Gauntlet! You're plotting to put a Noldor on the throne as the 'regent' aren't you? Then you can rally the rest of Pendor to overthrow the dirty elf and become Regent yourself!

Edit: And here comes Laisha with the broom. To the Great Rebellion thread, quick!
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Psychozoa
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:47 am

Aelos wrote:
Aelos wrote:

They called him the 'Mad' King and threw him from his throne.

Would Mettenheim and Veccavia support a Mad King?
I see only the Griffons truly defending him, and the madly loyal part of the Royal Army.

Information does not travel fast in pendor or generally in medieval times. Even if information reaches the Mettenheim or Veccavians, they have no reason to oppose mordred. Mettenheim gets lots of money through trade which can change with a new king. And the Veccavian queen sits there because of the help of mordred.

And who do you believe? If the King acts Mad in front of the Eventide but the King acts otherwise in front of the Dawn, the Dawn won't believe (the same with the Gauntlet and Silvermists)

I would believe the King. He has the most power ... for now

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Tubby McChubbles
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:53 am

Isabel Tenorio wrote:
Wouldn't making him abdicate be a pretty big rebellion?

Actually, most of the few times it happened were relatively bloodless, because it was always pulled off by popular nobles against unpopular kings.

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"As the plague hit Paris and killed thousands, in England the king held a series of splendid tournaments. In mid-February he was jousting at Reading, then later that month at Bury St Edmunds, where he appeared dressed in a huge bird costume."

"Manny! Manny to the rescue!"
-The war cry of Baron Walter de Masny

Project X-Ray: A US army project to strap incendiary bombs to bats and release them over Japan. The plan was abandoned after the bats escaped and destroyed a hangar and a general's car in New Mexico.


Spoiler:
 
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:57 am

Oh, definitely. Coups are the better choice against a military strongman like King Mordred for sure. The Griffons are just rather vigilant for such things, obviously.
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:01 am

And Mordred is about as popular as a King can be, with lords and the commoners both. He has after all restored peace and stability to a nation torn apart by war for decades.
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:03 am

Now he just has to convince them that they are a single nation. Whatever a nation is anyway! tongue
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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:38 am

Maybe we need to call in a parliament to define the word...

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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:42 am

Iskar wrote:
Maybe we need to call in a parliament to define the word...

Subtle.
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:17 am

We speak King's Pendorian.

A nation is whatever the King deems it to be, and the King has decreed that 'nation' is just another word for 'bathtub.' Now if only Pendor had bathtubs...
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:37 am

Mordred wrote:
Not as yet, no. They are quite arbitrary, not because the King is absolute (though in practice he pretty much is), but because they have never been properly codified. Think of an archaic version of the English system, whereby law is determined by precedent.
In what way is the king's power not absolute?

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DiabloDude
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:21 pm

It's a matter of formalization. There aren't actual limits on his power, its just not stated that there are no limits to his power.
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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:15 pm

And it is this matter of formalisation that interests me since the matter at hand is an accusation because of words.

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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:43 am

Mordred wrote:
A little more on the Kingdom of Pendor (first post updated);

Quote :
The Kingdom of Pendor

The Kingdom of Pendor is formed in a rather unconventional manner, namely that the King does not himself hold any direct lands at the moment, but rather relies on a levy of taxes and manpower from the kingdom at large. Currently taxes are set to roughly 20% of the income of all the Dukes (both in terms of crops, money and military service) who in turn raise their own taxes to cover this bill, and for their own expenses.

That said, the King is officially the overlord of all lands in Pendor, and legally they remain his to give and take as he pleases, as such the Lords of the Realm act more like renters or administrators in the name of the Crown, and should one or more act against the royal prerogative, he has the authority to usurp their lands without just cause, though this will of course upset the lords in question, and make the other members of the nobility fear for their own positions.

This means the Crown relies on the goodwill of the majority of the landholders within Pendor, but he has the ability to act quickly and decisively against those who question his authority. Mordred currently enjoys the loyalty of most lords of the realm, particularly in the Empire which joined Pendor in what was seen as the legitimate transfer of power, and in the Fierdsvain which is joined to the Adalhard dynasty through marriage.

Note, it is done this way not because it is the most authoritarian means of maintaining power (because it most certainly is not), but rather because I wanted to leave as much of Pendor open to the Orders as possible, as to declare war on Crown holdings would basically be declaring on the whole of Pendor, and this could seriously disadvantage some Orders.


Read this again. >.>
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:48 am

That doesn't make him not absolute. That is true of EVERY power holder in virtually all contexts. None of them, as individuals, have the power to impose their will upon everyone by force. Louis XIV was dependent on keeping his army loyal, and his nobles from serving as figureheads in another Fronde... that didn't make him a feudal monarch.


That means if Mordred pisses off most of the people, they will rise against him. That statement is utterly unimportant for the matter of absolutism.


Edit: Grr at deleted posts.
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PostSubject: Re: The Power of the King   Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:50 am

I love that most of the activity is going on between two or three individuals who can't agree on anything.

Good going, guys.

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