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 Just talking - archived

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Azlanek
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:10 pm

Sir Aranor wrote:
So you defend your actions by bringing up mistakes done by the bad apples in our orders? Sir that is different, the dawn doesnt burn villages anymore, and if that happens its done by a few who stray from the order.


I am actually wondering in how far this holds true. Sir Aranor's intentions might be honourable, but the fact remains that he is a relatively new Grandmaster, and the course before his reign was a course of fanatism and cruelty. I am curious how many knights look favourably upon his new way. Also, I get the impression that Aranor is trying to be the New Dawn without being part of the New Dawn. I mean no offense by that, I totally understand wanting to be the good guy, but I also feel that it is a pity that the Dawn is not carried on as they were presented in the game.

Of course, the same could be said about me representing the Eventide *g*.
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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:11 pm

Quote :
May I remind you that b4 M0rdred took power Noldor killed many humans, any that they could find?

May I kindly remind you, that before Mordred took power knights of the Dawn burned many humans, any they deemed suspicious?

So why isn't it equally necessary to protect humanity from you?

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Sir Aranor
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:12 pm

I placed that order near the beginning of my reign so that the new dawn faction could be convinced that the dawn isnt completly damned

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SimplePlan96
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:15 pm

Burning peasants???

We did not do that ...... ever since King Modred, his majesty, rose to the throne
Hunting Noldor?

Please?Noldor is on the other side of pendor?? Directly! and their the kings ally! How can we attack pendor allies?!!! You insult us for being traitors?

Worshipping demons??

Any proof?
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Azlanek
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:21 pm

Sir Aranor wrote:
I placed that order near the beginning of my reign so that the new dawn faction could be convinced that the dawn isnt completly damned

Exactly, but that is not what the Dawn is like in the Game. They hunt Sir Roland and accuse him of thievery. So as soon as you became Grandmaster you just did a one-eighty on that matter.
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SimplePlan96
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:27 pm

Azlanek wrote:
Sir Aranor wrote:
I placed that order near the beginning of my reign so that the new dawn faction could be convinced that the dawn isnt completly damned

Exactly, but that is not what the Dawn is like in the Game. They hunt Sir Roland and accuse him of thievery. So as soon as you became Grandmaster you just did a one-eighty on that matter.

So, he is the grandmaster,... he can change this as long as the Knights accept..

Which i accept 101%
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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:27 pm

One-eighties are heresy! Burn him! Twisted Evil

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Last edited by Iskar on Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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SimplePlan96
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:29 pm

Iskar wrote:
One-eighties are heresy! Burn him! Twisted Evil

How bout we burn you first Twisted Evil then we go and burn the rest of the pointy-ear worshippers
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Azlanek
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:31 pm

SimplePlan96 wrote:
So, he is the grandmaster,... he can change this as long as the Knights accept..

The question is, would the zealots we see in the game do that?
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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:33 pm

No, seriously: You cannot make a full turn in politics in an order full of fanatics that spent the past few years burning peasants for petty reasons (or no reason at all). That would be like Hu Jintao saying: "Freedom of speech is great and we are going to have free elections next time!" Guess what his communist comrades would say...

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SimplePlan96
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:35 pm

Azlanek wrote:
SimplePlan96 wrote:
So, he is the grandmaster,... he can change this as long as the Knights accept..

The question is, would the zealots we see in the game do that?

if we follow everything in the game.. joining an order would be a piece of cake...
Example

I am a honourable famed warrior. One day , i decided to join the Knights of the Dawn. I defeated 3 of their knights easily. I am now a Knight of the Dawn. The End. Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:36 pm

To iskar : I Said as long as fellow knights ACCEPT!
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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:39 pm

You have to distinguish between game mechanics (how you join an order) and game lore (what the order is said to be like). Of course we do not use game mechanics for the RPG, yet we rely heavily on the lore presented in the game. Therefore Azlanek's argument is valid.

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:43 pm

Well i concede to iskar..

Okay zealots in the game dont do that because there is no advanced political options for the Dawn.not yet. or am i misunderstanding the question. I know when i lose but not b4 fighting.
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Sir Aranor
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:47 pm

The reason they accept me and my order is because I am widely revered as Astrea's champion in the mortal world and I am linked to her, they know I am a chosen because of my deeds involving slaying eyegrim and scores of demonic magni.

When I told the order at the meeting in Valonbray my order, I said that Astrea would not want this, that we have strayed from our goals, the knights agreed, they are fanatics yes, but they are fanatics to Astrea and whatever she says.

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:55 pm

M'lord , you just did a home run lol!

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Azlanek
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:00 am

I just wonder why you want it to be this way. Now we have the Dawn and the New Dawn basically wanting to do the same things. It renders Sir Roland's redemption story rather obsolete and I just think that is a pity. I am just saying, I personally would find the story more interesting if the dawn was still as fanatical as they were in the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:01 am

We're still THAT fanatical , only we think more rationaly now. If Insult Astrea and you will face a full-scale war Cool
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Sir Aranor
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:06 am

No we still are as fanatical as ever. We just dont go burning stuff anymore. Me and Roland have different views of what the Dawn should be like. We agree on somethings but not on everything.

Think of as this way.
The catholic church (original dawn) becomes corrupt and stuff
Luther the original protestant (eventide) goes off and makes his own thing after the church (dawn) condemns him
Zwingli or some other protestant (some of new dawn) goes off, but doesnt agree on everything that Luther (eventide) says.
As the prostenatn reformation grows larger, humanists (dawn reformers such as I) like Erasmus try to reform the church (dawn)

But.. in these reforms there is no compromise, some injustices are rectified but the church (dawn) does not compromise.

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Azlanek
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:14 am

I still like the game version of the Dawn better, for I think one Hero trying to redeem the order is enough, but I am glad we had this little discussion.
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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:19 am

If you explain it that way, Aranor, you will certainly have some Opus Dei-like groups in your order with considerable influence and causing trouble. Or you will face further schisms like the brotherhood Pius X that broke from the church after the 2nd Vatican Council.

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:26 am

Well, nothing much can be done...

Every decision has it consequences..

Or every faction has its own seperate interests.

or every country have different political parties..

(just my opinion)
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:05 am

heh look at the boy backtracking to excuse his classless and untrustworthy behavior.
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:07 am

Unfortunately, the dawn was so fanatical that they burned many of their highest-ranking knights because they thought they did something heretical. For you to even entertain the thought of reforming would be so heretical that they would burn you, Grandmaster or not. Remember, these are the guys who the in game lore says that some of them claimed "Mirth (happiness) is heretical." Good luck with your super Force persuasion, you will need it. And a lightsaber.
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Sir Aranor
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking - archived   Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:43 am

How about shut your elf-loving mouth. How do you know that most of our higher-ranking knights were burned?
How about we burn you? You practically worship those heathens over near Laria, instead of forming your own unique knight order you just copy a old race's tactics and skills. Your just a club of fanboys and dreamers, you form a knight order, yet you act like common scouts and archers, you are all charlatans, not worthy of any trust that the good king has placed in you.

You hide out in a dirty fortified camp in the woods just to be closer to your precious elves, they don't like you! They havn't let you into their castle to study them, in fact, most humans find you annoying! Why do you think you have no chapter houses in any human settlements!

You can go off with your little squads and have your little tactics using only bows (not even knightly weapons) but know that while your playing boy scouts with your friends the real heroes of pendor are at the front lines. Am I insinuating that only dawn knights are heroes? No, griffons, guantlets, dragons, shadow legionaires, the raven spears, immortals, even the eventide! They all fight at the front lines with courage while the little kids pepper the enemy with their little arrows and their skirmishing tactics.

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