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 Order Tactics : OOC

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Curanthir
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:39 am

I don't think I've ever seen one use a lance. They may be able to, but they don't use it very often.

Edit: yeah they use them, but they usually use other weapons.
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Wolfarmin
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:45 am

Im kind of dissapointed that the dawn would get destroyed if on foot by anybody
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Pravenstern
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:51 am

wolfarmin wrote:
Im kind of dissapointed that the dawn would get destroyed if on foot by anybody
Not necessarily destroyed. They would be at disadvantage yes, but still able to win. It also depends a lot on the enemy.

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Curanthir
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:07 am

Remember, "below average on foot" means that they aren't as good as the KOTEG, they can still take on normal soldiers easily and steamroll them due to much better armor, weapons, and training. This is a comparison to other orders, in case there are inter-order wars. All of the orders can hold their own against any normal soldiers no matter what they are.
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dowpride
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:12 am

i still think knights of the eventide and dawn should be as good as the griffons due to their armor.
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Pravenstern
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:15 am

dowpride wrote:
i still think knights of the eventide and dawn should be as good as the griffons due to their armor.
Care to elaborate?

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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:25 am

Marcus the Shadow Fighter wrote:
They are rather more disciplined than the Immortals.

in whose opinion, yours?

I would say not. the immortals are an actual foot knight order while the shadow legion in game are really mounted i suppose its been adjusted for the rp according to your wishes.

and you both hail from and use empire tactics.
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dowpride
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:58 am

Pravenstern wrote:
dowpride wrote:
i still think knights of the eventide and dawn should be as good as the griffons due to their armor.
Care to elaborate?
in the game the knights of the eventide and the knights of the dawn have probably the best armor of the knighthood orders. this should be represented in the stats. tbh, the eventide seems underpowered due to small size and average skills all around (cept for auxilieries, which suck at everything)
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Marcus the Shadow Fighter
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:04 am

Centurion1 wrote:
Marcus the Shadow Fighter wrote:
They are rather more disciplined than the Immortals.

in whose opinion, yours?

I would say not. the immortals are an actual foot knight order while the shadow legion in game are really mounted i suppose its been adjusted for the rp according to your wishes.

and you both hail from and use empire tactics.

Shadow Legion is mainly an infantry order. Just ingame you see some centurions.

IMO it should be the most disciplined order, not having great individual skill or size like the Immortals do, rather being very disciplined, very organized, fully working together. Shadow Legionaries on foot are not very exceptional fighters 1-on-1 (Except for Marcus, his closest assistants and the Centurions), rather they rely on disciplined and organized formations to break the enemy. I can't tell would they lose to Immortals.

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Pravenstern
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:11 am

dowpride wrote:
Pravenstern wrote:
dowpride wrote:
i still think knights of the eventide and dawn should be as good as the griffons due to their armor.
Care to elaborate?
in the game the knights of the eventide and the knights of the dawn have probably the best armor of the knighthood orders. this should be represented in the stats. tbh, the eventide seems underpowered due to small size and average skills all around (cept for auxilieries, which suck at everything)
So you want to be as good as Griffons by making your cavalry worse. Remember, you're bigger than griffons and you have better cavalry. Your armor is as good as ours. So I'd say you're not worse than us. I won't say anything about the rising of armor levels though...

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Curanthir
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:23 am

Well, the Griffon's are the king's royal guard, so he has probably pumped hundreds of thousands of denars into their training so makes sense that they are the best
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Kamos
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:30 am

Eventide and Dawn Knights/Retainers come out to be better horsemen than the Griffons overall though we are better on foot and our retainers are extremely versatile. Seems balanced enough really.
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SimplePlan96
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:59 pm

Kamos wrote:
Eventide and Dawn Knights/Retainers come out to be better horsemen than the Griffons overall though we are better on foot and our retainers are extremely versatile. Seems balanced enough really.

unless you count the 20 knights under my command. Infantry ftw.
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:31 am

http://www.stormwind.co.uk/image1/OrderTroopStrength.htm

(If anyone knows how to save an xlsx file as an image, I will gladly post it here properly)
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dowpride
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:41 am

all i got from that is that for some reason knights of the eventide arent trained, and have the third lowest armor... something that is completely confusing to me.
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dowpride
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:41 am

all i got from that is that for some reason knights of the eventide arent trained, and have the third lowest armor... something that is completely confusing to me.
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:46 am

You have the same armour as the other Mounted Knightly Orders. Eventide is no better or worse than any of them. Training is toughness training (sorry forgot I had renamed that, it is in fact "Toughness"), which is something only the Legion and Gauntlets have prepared for, both of them being shock infantry.
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:07 am

@ Dawn and Eventide, I am open to suggestions for 1 or 2 more traits. Please submit them here.

EDIT : Gauntlets too, 1 more.
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Mordred
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:38 am

Sorry for multiple postings, trying to get all this up before I head off.

Please PM me if you have made deals / trades etc for additional training / gear which I can add to your personalised overviews that are now up in your individual chapterhouses. Chances are if they are not up already, that I have forgotten.

DON'T post them here, because that would just be silly, most of them being secret.
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dowpride
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:10 am

for dawn and eventide, i think fanatacism should be one. basically, the troops get into a frenzy and are devoted to seeking and destroying their enemies. this should give a major morale boost, and anything else you think nessacary.
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SimplePlan96
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:56 am

Put both of them
"Impervious to Morale"
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Azlanek
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:11 am

The fanaticism is the first thing that came to my mind as well.

Also both orders might be familiar in dealing with the common people more than other orders, because their believes/tasks often involve going into villages, talking to them, intimidating them, rounding them up etc.

Due to all the rumours talking about the Eventide being active a night, the knights may actually be better trained to fight in the darkness than other orders. Maybe they have even developed skills that allows them to charge much more silently at night than usually would be the case. Maybe they have padded their armour in a special way, bind cloth around the hooves of their steeds and train them to be silent.

Because they are active in the south, in a environment very hostile and dangerous, especially to heavy knights in black armour, they might also get a bonus for fighting in the desert and know everything useful about surviving in the desert, where other orders would be completely inexperienced.

The Dawn, simply due to experience, might be more proficient in setting things aflame, which could give them a edge in town fights or when raiding hostile settlements.
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dowpride
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:43 pm

i agree with azlanek.
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MordKaiser87
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:27 pm

I concur with my estranged brethren from the Eventide: fanaticism on and off the battlefield is what both our orders are famed for. In action, where other knights may suffer a morale break, KotE and KotD can summon up a rally cry for the Goddess and fight on with recovered morale. Even combat saves, one of our order gets morally wounded, a fanatical drive might be enough to give one last charge before dying.
To be fair and balanced, the RP-Leads can also account for the downsides of fanaticism: burning villages and journeying into the occult have respectively damaged the reputations of our orders, not to mention that on the battlefield sending in sanguine-raged fanatics can spell disaster against a more calculated enemy.

Individual perks, I would agree also that the KotD are a more mobile force. When I came up with ideas of my beloved Third Company of knights I saw them more as a mobile group that traveled town to town, enforcing religious dogma through trials of heresy and burnings ect ect. On the field being able to travel around is enough asset, that can be sum of things like being able to live off the land more easily than some orders (better logistics), we can cover more ground due to better horsemanship ect. BUT I'll leave it to Aranor to decide what could be our individual perk.

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Saeros
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PostSubject: Re: Order Tactics : OOC   Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:40 pm

Fanaticism as a perk makes sense for both. It has, however, two very relevant downsides (the upsides are quite obvious).

1) lack of flexibility: enraged, righteous and hot-headed fanatics tend to attack straight on and be intolerant to more elaborate tactics. More sneaky strategies seem impossible for these people.

Also, their overconfidence makes them think they will win any battle. This is specially true for the Dawn, with their 1400 members and blind faith-

2) Fanaticism may backfire. If the members believe their grandmaster or high officials are straying from their true faith, they might eliminate them without a second thought or respect to hierarchy.

To the upsides I would add: "Inspire fear in regular soldiers". Fighting a crazy, heavily armored fanatic requires nerves of steel, the kind that regular troops don't have.

All in all, it's a nice dynamic your orders got there.
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