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Curanthir
Grandmaster
Curanthir

Posts : 216
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 25
Location : LeTourneau University

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 11:19 am

Happy birthday!



Also, to take the topic in a completely different direction, I LOVE CALCULUS Very Happy Just learned to do integrals and it's so much fun :O
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Isabel Tenorio
Knight
Isabel Tenorio

Posts : 1610
Join date : 2012-06-20

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 11:20 am

I first read that as 'I love Calculon.' Razz
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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar

Posts : 4142
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 31
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 9:26 pm

Welcome to the club, Caranthir Smile

But remember: Never integrate in public Wink

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Sir Haegon
Knight
Sir Haegon

Posts : 1471
Join date : 2012-02-20
Location : Sarleon

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySat Sep 15, 2012 4:30 am

ridiculous, somehow violating the privacy of the commoner is regarded as not-done. But when it is royalty relaxing in a remote villa somewhere in France we can't wait till someone takes a picture.

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Saeros
Voice of the Nobility
Saeros

Posts : 1863
Join date : 2011-08-22
Location : Avernus

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 1:27 am

I saw the news today. I understand your point, but if the royalty insists so much in being seen as a different sort of people, they should be coherent and not try to live as normal people (exception, as always: Juliana and a couple of other monarchs who didn't want to be seen that way). They represent their respective nations and must expect to always have people prying over their lives. And since they represent an idea, their positions demands certain sacrifices: the same would happen if an US president hanged a hammer and sickle inside the White House, or if the pope started going to McDonalds. Sure, they have the right, but these behaviours don't fit their positions.

Yes, I think Plato was kinda right in saying that rulers should not have properties or anything that resembled a common life. Also, I don't think it's right for rulers to use people's money to go on vacations Very Happy
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Sir Haegon
Knight
Sir Haegon

Posts : 1471
Join date : 2012-02-20
Location : Sarleon

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 1:36 am

I think that is pretty outdated, and sure they are public figures... But it is more important that we do not allow this.

Now it is a public figure, tomorrow it is any celeb, the day after every politician/wallstreet broker/journalist/contruction worker who get's his or her picture taken while being at home in a private area.
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Mordred
Dragon of the North
Mordred

Posts : 2518
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 34
Location : London

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 1:38 am

And all in the "Public Interest", if the public lost this interest in such pointless things then there would be no demand, and it wouldn't happen. I am just sorry this rather petty issue has so overclouded the far more important events occurring in the middle east at the moment.
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Sir Haegon
Knight
Sir Haegon

Posts : 1471
Join date : 2012-02-20
Location : Sarleon

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 1:42 am

Mordred wrote:
And all in the "Public Interest", if the public lost this interest in such pointless things then there would be no demand, and it wouldn't happen. I am just sorry this rather petty issue has so overclouded the far more important events occurring in the middle east at the moment.

Has it? In Britain they don't want to see those pictures.. but that aside.

Middle east, horrible, but way to many theories going around already... and the stupidity of these muslims is beyond me.
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Tubby McChubbles
Grandmaster
Tubby McChubbles

Posts : 892
Join date : 2011-11-16

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 2:15 am

I'm just sorry that it has overshadowed BORDERLANDS 2 PRELOADING NOW.

_________________
"As the plague hit Paris and killed thousands, in England the king held a series of splendid tournaments. In mid-February he was jousting at Reading, then later that month at Bury St Edmunds, where he appeared dressed in a huge bird costume."

"Manny! Manny to the rescue!"
-The war cry of Baron Walter de Masny

Project X-Ray: A US army project to strap incendiary bombs to bats and release them over Japan. The plan was abandoned after the bats escaped and destroyed a hangar and a general's car in New Mexico.


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Mordred
Dragon of the North
Mordred

Posts : 2518
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 34
Location : London

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 2:40 am

Aelos wrote:
Has it? In Britain they don't want to see those pictures.. but that aside.

That's just naive, of course there is a demand for that kind of thing, else the paparazzi would never have bothered. The magazine who first published it is famous for doing just this, risking legal action because they know the sales they generate will dwarf any fines levied against them.

What makes it more sad is because of her husband's mother having to face face roughly the same treatment, and arguably dying because of it. More scary however is the length these people are willing to go for such pictures. Yes she shouldn't have been acting in such a manner but they were just about as far as they could be out of the public eye, at a countryside retreat owned by a friend, in a foreign country.

Anyway, that's all I am saying on it. Its just such a petty subject that I refuse to fuel speculation and gossip around it which is just what those tabloids want.
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Saeros
Voice of the Nobility
Saeros

Posts : 1863
Join date : 2011-08-22
Location : Avernus

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 2:46 am

Quote :
I think that is pretty outdated, and sure they are public figures... But it is more important that we do not allow this.

The Brazilian (ex-)prince defends a return to monarchy precisely on these grounds: monarchs being a symbol of the country's identity. But, yes, there's a line that photos and such should not cross, even with monarchs. On the other hand, discussing privacy issues is a much more pressing matter for protecting the weaker side of the rope: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2115980/german-hackers-uncover-government-trojan.

The Middle-East is complicated. America, Africa and Asia are complicated too. I'd say humans in general are complicated (and have a terrible sense of priority).
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Mordred
Dragon of the North
Mordred

Posts : 2518
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 34
Location : London

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 2:48 am

Saeros wrote:
The Middle-East is complicated. America, Africa and Asia are complicated too. I'd say humans in general are complicated (and have a terrible sense of priority).

Never have truer words been spoken!


Last edited by Mordred on Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Isabel Tenorio
Knight
Isabel Tenorio

Posts : 1610
Join date : 2012-06-20

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 2:50 am

If you're interested in an argument of monarchy vs republic that doesn't rest primarily upon often-uncited facts of the costs involved, I strongly recommend Otto von Habsburg's appropriately named essay Monarchy vs Republic. It's brief and not weighed down by excessive 'academic speak' for those that don't care.


http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=101620 This looks like the complete version.
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Saeros
Voice of the Nobility
Saeros

Posts : 1863
Join date : 2011-08-22
Location : Avernus

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 2:58 am

Yeah. Brazilians cut down an average of one England worth in forests every year (fact). What do they do? "Hey, lets spend all our money in hosting a World Cup! Let's host the Olympics too!"

*Sigh*


@Isabel: we had a referendum last decade to decide whether Brazil would be ruled by kings or presidents. We also had one in Italy after the war. In both cases monarchy lost, so all arguments to change anything are now pointless (dammit! the player should have saved the game before the referendum!).
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Isabel Tenorio
Knight
Isabel Tenorio

Posts : 1610
Join date : 2012-06-20

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 3:00 am

There are arguments about most of those referendums, at least the post World War ones. I don't try to seriously argue any monarchist positions, as I'm not a citizen of any affected country. Though the romantic in me certainly wants them back for that purpose. tongue
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Saeros
Voice of the Nobility
Saeros

Posts : 1863
Join date : 2011-08-22
Location : Avernus

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 3:07 am

I think monarchy is useful for large countries with problems of cultural homogeneity and weak institutions (Brazil). But then again, so is dictatorship. And while I openly defend the republic, sometimes I think how cool it would be to be citizen of an empire.

Yeah, then I remember what the empire did in the past and change my mind.


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Tubby McChubbles
Grandmaster
Tubby McChubbles

Posts : 892
Join date : 2011-11-16

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 3:17 am

Secretly taking photos like that on private land is a criminal offence in France anyway.

_________________
"As the plague hit Paris and killed thousands, in England the king held a series of splendid tournaments. In mid-February he was jousting at Reading, then later that month at Bury St Edmunds, where he appeared dressed in a huge bird costume."

"Manny! Manny to the rescue!"
-The war cry of Baron Walter de Masny

Project X-Ray: A US army project to strap incendiary bombs to bats and release them over Japan. The plan was abandoned after the bats escaped and destroyed a hangar and a general's car in New Mexico.


Spoiler:
 
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Sir Haegon
Knight
Sir Haegon

Posts : 1471
Join date : 2012-02-20
Location : Sarleon

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 3:20 am

Well, I'm proud to a member of a constitutional monarchy. Smile I must figure out a way to get Knighted... *sigh*


@Mordred
Well, as far as I know no one really cares about it. When Prince Harry was spotted naked in Vegas, people were talking about it everywhere...but I haven't really heard anything about Kate except that it will cost the tabloid millions if this goes to trial, wich it most probably will. I think that is is too much of royal nudity in one month, perhaps if this had come out a few months later it would be much more.. public.
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Tubby McChubbles
Grandmaster
Tubby McChubbles

Posts : 892
Join date : 2011-11-16

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 3:23 am

Actually Aelos, Breach of Privacy trials in France will cost them a maximum of £30,000.

_________________
"As the plague hit Paris and killed thousands, in England the king held a series of splendid tournaments. In mid-February he was jousting at Reading, then later that month at Bury St Edmunds, where he appeared dressed in a huge bird costume."

"Manny! Manny to the rescue!"
-The war cry of Baron Walter de Masny

Project X-Ray: A US army project to strap incendiary bombs to bats and release them over Japan. The plan was abandoned after the bats escaped and destroyed a hangar and a general's car in New Mexico.


Spoiler:
 
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Sir Haegon
Knight
Sir Haegon

Posts : 1471
Join date : 2012-02-20
Location : Sarleon

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 3:35 am

Tubby McChubbles wrote:
Actually Aelos, Breach of Privacy trials in France will cost them a maximum of £30,000.

International court in Brussels, goes into the millions. (has before in similar cases)
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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar

Posts : 4142
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 31
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 3:57 am

As a German I somewhat envy such countries as the Netherlands or the UK for having a proper constitutional monarchy that in a way is able to rally the whole country for common goals in times of need and provides nice opportunities to celebrate your country from time to time, enabling a rather peaceful form of patriotism that has no need for genuinely nationalist thoughts. On the other hand we never had such kings. Until 1871, the local lords and princes were the rulers perceived by the population, not the distant emperors in Vienna, or kings in Berlin or Königsberg. The Prussian emperors after 1871 failed horribly with the first world war, and the patriotism used by them was a nationalist one, since they drew support for themselves from the latter, not the other way around as it is the case with naturally grown monarchies (Netherlands, UK, etc.).
And the local lords and princes were by far not prominent enough to provide similar figures of representation and identification. I myself for example live in the city of Cologne which has been a proud Free Imperial City for the past 700 years, defying the prince-archbishops of the see of Cologne just as well as the dukes of Berg who owned the rest of the surrounding lands.

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Tubby McChubbles
Grandmaster
Tubby McChubbles

Posts : 892
Join date : 2011-11-16

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 4:06 am

I know that it did happen to a large extent, but I still don't understand how Germany/Austria didn't become a mass of smaller states after the 30 years war. Looking back, there wasn't enough unity to create a large state, but somehow it did. May have had something to do with all the foreign intervention.

_________________
"As the plague hit Paris and killed thousands, in England the king held a series of splendid tournaments. In mid-February he was jousting at Reading, then later that month at Bury St Edmunds, where he appeared dressed in a huge bird costume."

"Manny! Manny to the rescue!"
-The war cry of Baron Walter de Masny

Project X-Ray: A US army project to strap incendiary bombs to bats and release them over Japan. The plan was abandoned after the bats escaped and destroyed a hangar and a general's car in New Mexico.


Spoiler:
 
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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar

Posts : 4142
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 31
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 4:15 am

One must not underestimate the institution of holy roman emperorship. Even thought the emperors had few direct power, being part of the Holy Roman Empire was an old and strong idea that had been there basically since Charlemagne had had himself crowned emperor in succession to the Roman emperors in 800. And while the smaller states kept a lot of their independence it would have taken more than 30 years of war to disperse that idea.

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Ser Varys
Grandmaster
Ser Varys

Posts : 753
Join date : 2011-09-26
Location : East Coast USA

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 5:49 am

Iskar wrote:
As a German I somewhat envy such countries as the Netherlands or the UK for having a proper constitutional monarchy that in a way is able to rally the whole country for common goals in times of need and provides nice opportunities to celebrate your country from time to time, enabling a rather peaceful form of patriotism that has no need for genuinely nationalist thoughts. On the other hand we never had such kings. Until 1871, the local lords and princes were the rulers perceived by the population, not the distant emperors in Vienna, or kings in Berlin or Königsberg. The Prussian emperors after 1871 failed horribly with the first world war, and the patriotism used by them was a nationalist one, since they drew support for themselves from the latter, not the other way around as it is the case with naturally grown monarchies (Netherlands, UK, etc.).
And the local lords and princes were by far not prominent enough to provide similar figures of representation and identification. I myself for example live in the city of Cologne which has been a proud Free Imperial City for the past 700 years, defying the prince-archbishops of the see of Cologne just as well as the dukes of Berg who owned the rest of the surrounding lands.

Off topic, I was in Germany for a bit before I flew to Egypt and the people that were with me were considering going to Cologne for some time off before the flight (Which unluckily, was in a few days) Frankfurt and Munich airports were nice.

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Isabel Tenorio
Knight
Isabel Tenorio

Posts : 1610
Join date : 2012-06-20

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 5:51 am

I had heard great things about the Frankfurt airport... it was a dump.

I thought I understood why when I saw signs talking about remodelling and such... but then I noticed that the worst parts had been 'completed.' It was shocking how run-down it looked, especially brand new!

Munich though... I may only have been in the airport, but I love the city now.
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