An RPG detailing the aftermath of the events of PoP3 and the events before PoP4
 
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Pravenstern
Knight
Pravenstern

Posts : 1623
Join date : 2011-08-20
Location : Oulu, Finland

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyThu Dec 13, 2012 3:55 am

Yeah, the Radiant Cross. I believe it was stated that they were removed as playable due to being used for another event.

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Saeros
Voice of the Nobility
Saeros

Posts : 1863
Join date : 2011-08-22
Location : Avernus

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyThu Dec 13, 2012 4:03 am

Not that one.
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Pravenstern
Knight
Pravenstern

Posts : 1623
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Location : Oulu, Finland

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyThu Dec 13, 2012 4:40 am

Saeros wrote:
Not that one.
Now I'm confused... Gauntlet has a cross in their symbol, right?

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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar

Posts : 4142
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 31
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyThu Dec 13, 2012 4:44 am

Actually true, now that you mention it. But is is usually ignored since the gauntlet at the centre is much more emblematic.

The problem I personally always have with crosses in fantasy coats of arms is that, although it is the most prominent heraldic device in european heraldry, the cross comes from the specific religious background provided by christianity and would thus not be common in fantasy worlds that lack this background.

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Mordred
Dragon of the North
Mordred

Posts : 2518
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 34
Location : London

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyThu Dec 13, 2012 4:48 am

Had I joined the dev team earlier I would never have named them the Radiant Cross, for the reasons Iskar mentions it would make no sense as the cross is not an important symbol in Pendor.

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Saeros
Voice of the Nobility
Saeros

Posts : 1863
Join date : 2011-08-22
Location : Avernus

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyThu Dec 13, 2012 4:57 am

I must disagree. Swastikas and cross-like symbols were used not a few times before Christianity. The Ankh and sunwheel are an example, and I recall seeing a native Finnish symbol that looked like a cross as well.

The reason for the common use of crosses in antiquity may also be, I think, the ease in which it's written: in times when letters were carved in stone and wood, cutting two straight lines in an X or + way is pretty intuitive.
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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar

Posts : 4142
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 31
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyThu Dec 13, 2012 5:13 am

I see your point that crosses can occur just because of being a somewhat basic structure of any kind of writing, but I still do not think that they would find their way into heraldry even if they are present in writing.

I have spent quite some time with heraldry and have encountered only very few, if any, examples where written symbols (i.e. letters) made it into heraldry just by themselves.
Heraldic figures are geometric subdivisions of the field and/or representations of animals or objects used to identify the bearer and, in most cases, claim certain attributes for him. E.g. bearing a lion on your shield was most likely at first just meant to frighten the enemy/ tell him that you are a ferocious and capable fighter. Later the purposes of visual propaganda and personal identification mingled, but you will find only very few figures that do not have some meaning of their own.
The cross appears in european heraldry because it is a sign for the faith. The only other way a cross could become part of a coat of arms is as a natural quartering subdivision of the field where you thicken the dividing lines, but as long as the cross figure itself carries no sufficient meaning it would be highly unlikely to get beyond that state.

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Tonedyr
Knight
Tonedyr

Posts : 296
Join date : 2012-11-21
Location : Australia

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyThu Dec 13, 2012 7:24 am

A cross could also appear as a simplified sword, though that doesn't exactly fit the Radiant Cross (except if swords became all-pervading in heraldry at the time they arose).
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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyThu Dec 13, 2012 7:29 am

The Radiant Cross is a greek one (all parts of the same length) while a sword would, if ever, be stylised into a latin cross with three short and one long handle.

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Pravenstern
Knight
Pravenstern

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyThu Dec 13, 2012 7:46 am

Didn't a couple of Empre lords have banner with a cross? E.G Cassian, Gallus, Varius... There was also the stylished red cross on yellow -banner available to the player.

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Saeros
Voice of the Nobility
Saeros

Posts : 1863
Join date : 2011-08-22
Location : Avernus

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyThu Dec 13, 2012 7:56 am

Just say that the cross is there because the Empire values engineering so much that it made it into their banners.

http://www.c4dzone.com/en/download/models-6/roman-groma-733.htm
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Zekic Thunion of Laria
Knight
Zekic Thunion of Laria

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Age : 25
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptySun Dec 16, 2012 11:43 pm

Happy birthday Tobberman! Wish you the best of luck and to have some fun on these forums, and outside of them.
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Saeros
Voice of the Nobility
Saeros

Posts : 1863
Join date : 2011-08-22
Location : Avernus

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptySun Dec 16, 2012 11:46 pm

Zekic Thunion of Laria wrote:
Happy birthday Tobberman! Wish you the best of luck and to have some fun on these forums, and outside of them.
+1
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Pravenstern
Knight
Pravenstern

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptySun Dec 16, 2012 11:48 pm

Saeros wrote:
Zekic Thunion of Laria wrote:
Happy birthday Tobberman! Wish you the best of luck and to have some fun on these forums, and outside of them.
+1
Happy birthday, man!

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Saeros
Voice of the Nobility
Saeros

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptySun Dec 16, 2012 11:49 pm

No, say it in Finnish.
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Pravenstern
Knight
Pravenstern

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyMon Dec 17, 2012 12:19 am

Saeros wrote:
No, say it in Finnish.
Hyvää syntymäpäivää, Tobberman! En kyllä pidä tätä erityisen erikoisena englanniksi sanomiseen nähden, mutta annetaan Saerokselle viihdettä tylsään päivään.

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Saeros
Voice of the Nobility
Saeros

Posts : 1863
Join date : 2011-08-22
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyMon Dec 17, 2012 12:29 am

What Pravenstern said.

My Indo-European skills are useless here.
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Pravenstern
Knight
Pravenstern

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyMon Dec 17, 2012 12:34 am

Saeros wrote:
What Pravenstern said.

My Indo-European skills are useless here.
the rest amounted to: this is pretty useless but let's humour Saeros.

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Saeros
Voice of the Nobility
Saeros

Posts : 1863
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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyMon Dec 17, 2012 12:41 am

Thanks! Now if someone speaks in Polish and Irish he'll make me happy for the rest of the year.
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Sir Aranor
Grandmaster
Sir Aranor

Posts : 1918
Join date : 2011-08-20
Age : 24

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyMon Dec 17, 2012 1:18 am

Happy birthday! Smile

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tobberman
Knight
tobberman

Posts : 129
Join date : 2011-11-24
Age : 25
Location : Finland

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyMon Dec 17, 2012 7:54 am

Thanks for the congratulations. And the same in finnish:

Kiitoksia onnitteluista.
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Saeros
Voice of the Nobility
Saeros

Posts : 1863
Join date : 2011-08-22
Location : Avernus

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyMon Dec 17, 2012 8:26 am

Quote :
Kiitoksia onnitteluista.
Hakity pakity bling blang to you too.
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Alaric Reiner
Knight
Alaric Reiner

Posts : 400
Join date : 2012-11-20

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyMon Dec 17, 2012 8:35 am

I could try it in Irish if you like. Just have to make sure to reference the Blarney Stone and leprechauns at least twice.

Happy Birthday though.
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Sir Aranor
Grandmaster
Sir Aranor

Posts : 1918
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Age : 24

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyMon Dec 17, 2012 9:28 am

Saeros wrote:
Quote :
Kiitoksia onnitteluista.
Hakity pakity bling blang to you too.

That little exchance just made me think of what it must have been like from the Aztecs meeting Cortez Laughing

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Tubby McChubbles
Grandmaster
Tubby McChubbles

Posts : 892
Join date : 2011-11-16

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PostSubject: Re: Just talking   Just talking - Page 31 EmptyThu Dec 20, 2012 7:24 am

For the new people and for the people who still don't have it, Crusader Kings 2 is on sale on steam for £9. Also, Stronghold is on sale, but I only really recommend Stronghold 1.

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