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 Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts

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Marcus the Shadow Fighter
Grandmaster
Marcus the Shadow Fighter

Posts : 1148
Join date : 2011-08-20
Location : A windy cavern somewhere near Helsinki

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 2:28 am

First everyone is abusing the Silvermists' bad melee capabilities, beating them left and right, and then they also smuggle goods past them? I'd say that Silvermists are a lot more used to detecting smuggled goods rather than fighting them.

Also, what if those who have weapons simply refused to be inspected and just thumped the poor halberdier?

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Saeros
Voice of the Nobility
Saeros

Posts : 1863
Join date : 2011-08-22
Location : Avernus

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 3:20 am

LOL'd hard on MM Very Happy

Quote :
Theeeen we have to decide if Zekic would have been able to get a crossbow in, as it's a rather big deal.
I disagree completely on this and on altering IC posts. We must all be responsible for what our characters do. A good reason to think carefully before posting.

If someone above decides "this went bad, so I'm cancelling the thread; forget everything that happened here", I will probably leave Aftermath.

Quote :
First everyone is abusing the Silvermists' bad melee capabilities, beating them left and right, and then they also smuggle goods past them? I'd say that Silvermists are a lot more used to detecting smuggled goods rather than fighting them.
Also, what if those who have weapons simply refused to be inspected and just thumped the poor halberdier?
I'm trying to ignore that. Everyone punches my halberdiers as if its okay " 'cuz I'm a duke/grandmaster/pissed, and they're not". I don't want to comment on this; bigger issues to solve right now.

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Isabel Tenorio
Knight
Isabel Tenorio

Posts : 1610
Join date : 2012-06-20

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 3:26 am

The issue is more whether or not Zekic would have been capable of bringing the crossbow in in the first place, as it isn't exactly a concealable weapon. Not allowing bolts is good enough for me, though.
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Laisha
Knight
Laisha

Posts : 255
Join date : 2011-11-24
Age : 30
Location : Pennsylvania, United States

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 3:27 am

If you mean in-character childishness...well, it's in the eye of the beholder. We also can't ignore the fact that certain characters (Isabel) must be played with a certain level of obtuseness or bravado or else they're playing against type. They can't just get rid of those personality traits and become agreeable for the situation. The purpose of simple majority voting is specifically because some characters will not move ideologically or their sense of honor will prevent them from changing, even when their minds have been swayed. Same applies to just how they interact in general.

Unfortunately, all the thumpings halberdiers have gotten may be an argument in favor of having the Royal Army stand guard. Can't blame people for wanting dramatic entrances, but we can't just go beating up each others troops, either. Guards from a more authoritative group would probably solve that minor problem.

I agree in handwaving the crossbow being in the room, though drawing it can't slide, either. There's no way an impetuous squire can do that without some repercussions, though from whom is something to be hashed out by others.
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MitchyMatt
Royal Herald
MitchyMatt

Posts : 295
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 25
Location : New York

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 3:28 am

If someone was smart enough, or comprising enough to do it then I see it all feasibly possible. Just because no one else can explain it doesn't mean he didn't have the resource of having constructed a concealed weapon.
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Isabel Tenorio
Knight
Isabel Tenorio

Posts : 1610
Join date : 2012-06-20

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 3:31 am

A true point.

Since he didn't actually manage to kill or maim anyone, and the RP has continued on already, are we just leaving it be with the weapon being in the room in the first place and continue on with the consequences of that happening?


Edit: As to the guard issue, there is a very large IC interpretation gap as to what 'overseeing a meeting' means. It has to be settled IC, and one side cannot simply assume the OOC/GM authority to settle it in their favor.
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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar

Posts : 4142
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 31
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 3:35 am

DiabloDude wrote:
Somehow, I don't think if Iskar didn't even want a dagger (Easily overlooked or considered a non-issue when entering) an issue, he'd have let one of the members of his rival order enter with a crossbow.

EDIT: Also, Iskar, I'd stop trying to argue your right to command my men. If you wish to go by IC authority: Duke of the men and high chancellor of the king > Someone who is not even a Grandmaster.

If you want Mordred to rule on it then I'm willing to wait for him, but it seems pretty clear to me.

As I said earlier, although you might have missed it, my argument was based on the authorities of the chairman of the meeting. If Mordred rules that organising the meeting does not include security issues, then your argument is valid. However, if the task to organise the meeting includes the right to command guards related to it, then the royal decree clearly overrides the duke's authority since the duke of Sarleon only rules these men in place of the king. Anyway, it depends on what Mordred decides now.

Regarding the general issue that people freely chose to punch our guard NPCs and smuggle in weapons without asking I can say I'm not at all happy about it, but I can hardly do anything about it now. If people need this to make their characters look more awesome, well, I am tired of complaining and will not stop them from doing it then if it's only about minor situations such as this. On a battlefield this would be a different kind of issue, though...

I think we can roleplay some consequences of Zekic's behaviour and await Mordred's decision on the guard-command issue.

Above all, I wish to carry on with the meeting, finish the vote on the latest suggestion and finally get something done.

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Isabel Tenorio
Knight
Isabel Tenorio

Posts : 1610
Join date : 2012-06-20

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 3:37 am

Both sides feel they have the authority (IC). That's just RP, we've got to deal with it IC.

Trying to use OOC to make it go in someone's favor IC is absolutely horrid RP.
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MitchyMatt
Royal Herald
MitchyMatt

Posts : 295
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 25
Location : New York

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 3:38 am

I took care of the post regarding him.. if someone care to issue the guards actions..
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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar

Posts : 4142
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 31
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 3:41 am

@Isabel: It does not matter in whose favour Mordred decides the issue. I'll be glad about any decision that allows us to put this unpleasant episode to rest, since this was not about a proper IC dissent but about different conceptions applied OOC that made each of us two think they are right.

If we had both worked under the same premises it would indeed have been a matter to be settled IC, but that was not the case, so we need Mordred's decision.

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Isabel Tenorio
Knight
Isabel Tenorio

Posts : 1610
Join date : 2012-06-20

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 3:43 am

It seems all rather IC to me.

Iskar has interpreted the King's letter as giving much more power than Darlion has. Now there are a few Halberdiers that would answer to Iskar, and the others that would more likely listen to Darlion. IC misunderstandings are quite fun, it's the abuse of OOC power that is making it an issue.
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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar

Posts : 4142
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 31
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 3:48 am

The issue is OOC because it is not particularly about the letter but about what authority the chairman receives by this title. We did not foresee that this issue would arise and failed to define the role of the chairman more clearly. We should clear this issue now. For if there is no underlying IC truth one can agree on, there is no way out of this argument IC.

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Isabel Tenorio
Knight
Isabel Tenorio

Posts : 1610
Join date : 2012-06-20

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 3:52 am

The way out of the argument is one of them bending, or it lies with the most swords... or a more clever move by one side to avoid escalation. It's an awesome situation for the RP, I would say. The King did not foresee such a conflict, and so only the King giving IC clarification could solve the issue. OOC clarification wouldn't be taken by our characters.

The issue is having Darlion's guard captain obey Iskar as opposed to Darlion. Iskar is fully capable of believing he has that authority, and Darlion disagreeing. It's RP, it's a misunderstanding, and it's fun as long as we're obeying the rules of RP and not poweremoting/godmoding.
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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar

Posts : 4142
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 31
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 3:55 am

How do you plan to solve an argument without determining beforehand what is actually true? Vote on the truth?

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Isabel Tenorio
Knight
Isabel Tenorio

Posts : 1610
Join date : 2012-06-20

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 3:56 am

The truth is irrelevant.

Iskar believes he holds a royal decree granting him the power to command Darlion's men.

Darlion disagrees.

There must be an IC resolution.

The issue is that you've attempted to solve the matter through OOC power, through power-emoting that Darlion's man obeyed Iskar. That is a massive problem to me.
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Marcus the Shadow Fighter
Grandmaster
Marcus the Shadow Fighter

Posts : 1148
Join date : 2011-08-20
Location : A windy cavern somewhere near Helsinki

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 4:04 am

It's good that you managed to reach a solution for this yourself. Solve it IC, and don't forget that there will be consequences, if not anything serious.

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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar

Posts : 4142
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 31
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 4:04 am

I'm wondering why it was not a massive problem to you when DD and Mordred poweremoted that my guards would deny them entrance and furthermore that their characters would be able to just beat them to submission without further consequences...

But, alas, it was not primarily Iskar(character) and Darlion who had a disagreement, but it was Iskar(player) and DD who started out with different notions of "chairman", which caused the dissent. The problem originated OOC not IC and should be solved OOC.

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Isabel Tenorio
Knight
Isabel Tenorio

Posts : 1610
Join date : 2012-06-20

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 4:11 am

There is certainly an OOC question of it, but it isn't relevant to the RP right now.

Their poweremoting would have been a problem for me if it had been a problem for anyone else. No one raised objections, had they done so, I would have agreed with them. I'm raising this objection now because it's a massive turn for the RP, Mastifus entering had minimal impact so I didn't care to bring it up.

The problem: Darlion arrived with his own military force and attempted to take charge of the room. The Constable disagreed and attempted to take charge of the room. Now it is to be settled by who the soldiers obey. Attempting to RP the Constable winning because you think he is right is a terrible move for RP.

There will be consequences for these characters' actions based on the settlement of the OOC disagreement. Attempting to get out of the situation with OOC maneuvering is just plain bad RP. It's metagaming for you to say the Constable is doing this because he is right. The Constable thinks he is right.
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Sir Aranor
Grandmaster
Sir Aranor

Posts : 1918
Join date : 2011-08-20
Age : 24

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 4:16 am

Jesus christ....

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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar

Posts : 4142
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 31
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 4:18 am

I did not protest against that power emoting because a bruised halberdier seemed to be a small price for avoiding such unpleasant discussions as we have now. But looking back, maybe I should have objected just then.

I still cannot see why you want to resolve everything IC, even if it originated OOC.

Anyway, I wrote DD a PM and we will resolve this issue however he sees fit. I myself am quite tired of these OOC discussions that I tried to prevent by not complaining about the previous power emoting, although I have to admit that I played a part in the discussion we had...

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Isabel Tenorio
Knight
Isabel Tenorio

Posts : 1610
Join date : 2012-06-20

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 4:21 am

Juuust so everyone knows, I'll not respond except for this response. Wink
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Marcus the Shadow Fighter
Grandmaster
Marcus the Shadow Fighter

Posts : 1148
Join date : 2011-08-20
Location : A windy cavern somewhere near Helsinki

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 4:29 am

Argument's ended, let's talk about something useful for a change.

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MitchyMatt
Royal Herald
MitchyMatt

Posts : 295
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 25
Location : New York

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 4:30 am

I personally love talking about food.
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Isabel Tenorio
Knight
Isabel Tenorio

Posts : 1610
Join date : 2012-06-20

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 4:31 am

Celdiur mentioned a roast chicken in the Tavern thread.

Medieval Times (the dinner-show place) has excellent roast chicken.
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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar

Posts : 4142
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 31
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts - Page 21 EmptySun Sep 23, 2012 4:33 am

Agenda: DD and I will somehow resolve the guards issue, then we can take care of the rmapaging gauntlet, then we can move on with the vote (on whatever issue).

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