| Throne Room OOC | |
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+15Ser Varys dowpride Kamos Sir Celdiur Moriendor Isabel Tenorio Slopsen Tubby McChubbles Saeros Mordred Sir Aranor DiabloDude Marcus the Shadow Fighter Pravenstern Sir Haegon Iskar 19 posters |
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Iskar Peasant turned Lord
Posts : 4142 Join date : 2011-08-19 Age : 35 Location : Germany
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:26 am | |
| My latin teacher used to say that Rome started going down 146 BC when they conquered Carthage and Corinth, gaining control over all of the mediterranean sea and the grain imports from egypt, sicily and spain, making the higher strata of rome even richer and more addicted to luxury, while the landowners switched from growing wheat to olives and wine which was more profitable but economically doomed the lower rural strata since they could not compete. The influx of impoverished rural population (proletes) into the cities and the loss of touch with the lower classes by the leading strata was what slowly started to undermine Rome's strength so that it could actually be beaten in later years. | |
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Ser Varys Grandmaster
Posts : 753 Join date : 2011-09-26 Location : East Coast USA
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:27 am | |
| Does the king dislike the orders now, or just the griffons? I saw the effects in the main thread, but at the end, the King said something about 'damning evidence', and the thread said he thought about this 'open revolt'. Was he talking about Aelfwine or the Orders? | |
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Isabel Tenorio Knight
Posts : 1610 Join date : 2012-06-20
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:29 am | |
| Damning evidence refers to the Orders. They did what Aelfwine accused them of. The open revolt is Aelfwine's reaction to it. He's closed the doors to his city, and not spoken to the King with much respect. Whether the King hates the Orders now... well, read what the Orders said about the King. | |
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Tubby McChubbles Grandmaster
Posts : 892 Join date : 2011-11-16
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:35 am | |
| - Saeros wrote:
- immigration: they allowed uncultured and undisciplinded barbarians to acquire Roman citizenship. - economic collapse: not enough slaves, and no possibility of conquering other lands and finding more of them. - corruption
oh boy, the economy. Those are the big three in most opinions. They used to have a handle on immigration, but ended up allowing tribes to stay whole, under their own leadership, within Roman lands. Quite frankly, if they had just been less racist the western empire might have survived far longer. It wouldn't have been "Italian", but then it pretty much wasn't anyway towards the end. EG: Alaric sacked Rome because the emperor randomly went back on negotiations, Stilicho and a whole host of kickass figures were forced away from power by the Italian system, etc. Especially that magnificent bastard Aetius.The other huge thing was the Eastern Empire constantly nudging barbarians towards the weaker, poorer west. | |
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Saeros Voice of the Nobility
Posts : 1863 Join date : 2011-08-22 Location : Avernus
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:39 am | |
| Despite what Hollywood and popular culture teach us, things take time to happen. I think Rome started going down after Augustus and the weakening of the Senate. You can see the gradual decay in many elements of their society - even in the equipment of legionnaires, which gradually lost quality until it became similar to the barbarian gear (= a bad thing).
Tubby: I lectured on Roman citizenship two weeks ago. Why was it a deal? Well, citizens were allowed to not be tortured (yay!). And they couldn't be executed by the cross (only by beheading or whatever). They could also vote, and I don't think the barbarians voted for the conservative party (being a liberal, it pains me to say that the conservatives were absolutely necessary for the survival of Rome). | |
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Pravenstern Knight
Posts : 1632 Join date : 2011-08-20 Location : Finland
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:15 pm | |
| - Isabel Tenorio wrote:
- Damning evidence refers to the Orders. They did what Aelfwine accused them of.
The open revolt is Aelfwine's reaction to it. He's closed the doors to his city, and not spoken to the King with much respect.
Whether the King hates the Orders now... well, read what the Orders said about the King. So, Silvermists will get spanked by Mordred? | |
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Tubby McChubbles Grandmaster
Posts : 892 Join date : 2011-11-16
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:35 pm | |
| - Saeros wrote:
- Despite what Hollywood and popular culture teach us, things take time to happen. I think Rome started going down after Augustus and the weakening of the Senate. You can see the gradual decay in many elements of their society - even in the equipment of legionnaires, which gradually lost quality until it became similar to the barbarian gear (= a bad thing).
Tubby: I lectured on Roman citizenship two weeks ago. Why was it a deal? Well, citizens were allowed to not be tortured (yay!). And they couldn't be executed by the cross (only by beheading or whatever). They could also vote, and I don't think the barbarians voted for the conservative party (being a liberal, it pains me to say that the conservatives were absolutely necessary for the survival of Rome). Yeah, people don't seem to realise that these "barbarians" weren't trying to destroy Rome, they were trying to become a part of it. I agree with Iskar that Rome started to decline after the fall of Carthage. Putting it incredibly simplistically, Rome thrived on a challenge, and as soon as nothing challenged them anymore, they got lazy, and let their institutions go to hell. The primary example of this is the legions. People say "ooh, when it got professional it got awesome" but it meant that 1) it was no longer people fighting for what they believed in, it was people fighting for money. 2) it was people fighting for a general, not the state. This led directly to the fall of the republic, and gave all the emperors trust issues, as to give command of the largest army was a risky thing. More reasons (obviously) but I don't have time right now. | |
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Marcus the Shadow Fighter Grandmaster
Posts : 1148 Join date : 2011-08-20 Location : A windy cavern somewhere near Helsinki
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:20 am | |
| If someone's good for the country, then he should be chosen; whether he's liberal or conservative should not have an effect on your decisions. Unfortunately it has, even for me. There are more reasons, of course, and one of them was that one man could not rule such a large empire by himself. The republic was by far a much better institution to rule in general, and while it is debatable whether it ceased to act as a functionable, efficient ruling mechanism at the dawn of the Roman Emperors, the truth still remains pure: Rome did much better against foes with a Republic than with an Emperor. Take a look at Hannibal, for example: he destroyed several HUGE roman armies, but that wasn't enough to break their morale. It almost was, but not quite. During the times of the Emperors, all it took for Rome to fall on its knees was the losing of one or two legions - they had lost dozens of them without breaking! - and it really shows how much more dependent Rome became of its military. I will always be pro-roman republic, though. | |
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Sir Haegon Knight
Posts : 1471 Join date : 2012-02-20 Location : Sarleon
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:54 am | |
| 'the generally disapproved arrest' amuses me to great extent. How else would one react when one of you, one who spoke ill of the King and wanted to limit his power, was arrested in front of your own eyes. No one is that good an actor that they would cheer the moment it happened, while ignoring the memory of all the bad things you might have said yourself. reasoning = weak. Happy to give my opinion. | |
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Iskar Peasant turned Lord
Posts : 4142 Join date : 2011-08-19 Age : 35 Location : Germany
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:11 am | |
| I feel tempted to contradict, but I'm somewhat tired of OOC arguments. If you have objections, raise them IC. | |
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Sir Haegon Knight
Posts : 1471 Join date : 2012-02-20 Location : Sarleon
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:18 am | |
| - Iskar wrote:
- I feel tempted to contradict, but I'm somewhat tired of OOC arguments. If you have objections, raise them IC.
I will! But Aelos is..preoccupied at the moment. Plus he's a Griffon, so he won't be able to see things objective and his arguments would therefore.. be of less value. Basically what I'm trying to say that when Aelos opens his mouth during an IC argument about the Throne Room.. he'd lose by default, so I won't let him go through eternal shame and hellfire. Just wanted to voice my opinion, there is no need for a discussion of any sort. | |
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Mordred Dragon of the North
Posts : 2518 Join date : 2011-08-19 Age : 38 Location : London
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:35 am | |
| Will the Griffons respond to Iskar's accusations? | |
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Pravenstern Knight
Posts : 1632 Join date : 2011-08-20 Location : Finland
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:46 am | |
| - Mordred wrote:
- Will the Griffons respond to Iskar's accusations?
Yes, but we still have no idea, what was done with the letter. | |
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Pravenstern Knight
Posts : 1632 Join date : 2011-08-20 Location : Finland
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:47 am | |
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Sir Haegon Knight
Posts : 1471 Join date : 2012-02-20 Location : Sarleon
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:50 am | |
| - Pravenstern wrote:
- Happy now?
Let me speak for all the squires in our fantastic order when I say: Bravo! We are proud of you kind and wise Sir Loremaster. | |
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Pravenstern Knight
Posts : 1632 Join date : 2011-08-20 Location : Finland
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:52 am | |
| - Aelos wrote:
- Pravenstern wrote:
- Happy now?
Let me speak for all the squires in our fantastic order when I say: Bravo! We are proud of you kind and wise Sir Loremaster. I'm screwed aren't I? | |
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Mordred Dragon of the North
Posts : 2518 Join date : 2011-08-19 Age : 38 Location : London
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:59 am | |
| Good, thanks Pravenstern. I'll lock that thread now so that the GM's can enact the "King Mechanic" and so make a determination on what to do now, so that we can finally move on past this event. | |
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Iskar Peasant turned Lord
Posts : 4142 Join date : 2011-08-19 Age : 35 Location : Germany
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:58 am | |
| - Pravenstern wrote:
- ”You think that your suggestion of royal council is ruined. Are you deaf? His Majesty previously agreed to form such an institute. You never specified whether you wanted it to be of only a advisory role or actually having power, so you may be truthful on your intentions. The only time this came up was when Duke Darlion informed the council that Griffons would support the proposal only if the council had only an advisory role. That seemed to find the disapproval of grandmaster Aranor and it snowballed into the trial from there.”
Iskar talked about the council of orders such as the one we had in the event, not about the councils mentioned in the final recommendation. I thought that was clear. | |
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Pravenstern Knight
Posts : 1632 Join date : 2011-08-20 Location : Finland
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:00 am | |
| - Iskar wrote:
- Pravenstern wrote:
- ”You think that your suggestion of royal council is ruined. Are you deaf? His Majesty previously agreed to form such an institute. You never specified whether you wanted it to be of only a advisory role or actually having power, so you may be truthful on your intentions. The only time this came up was when Duke Darlion informed the council that Griffons would support the proposal only if the council had only an advisory role. That seemed to find the disapproval of grandmaster Aranor and it snowballed into the trial from there.”
Iskar talked about the council of orders such as the one we had in the event, not about the councils mentioned in the final recommendation. I thought that was clear. You were ambigious about that. It could be interpreted either way. | |
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Iskar Peasant turned Lord
Posts : 4142 Join date : 2011-08-19 Age : 35 Location : Germany
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:01 am | |
| Iskar did not mention the council from the recommendation at all in his whole speech. He talked about the council of orders all the time and I see no ambiguity, but nevermind. If you perceived it that way (and thus your character) it's fine as it is. | |
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Pravenstern Knight
Posts : 1632 Join date : 2011-08-20 Location : Finland
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:05 am | |
| - Iskar wrote:
- Iskar did not mention the council from the recommendation at all in his whole speech. He talked about the council of orders all the time and I see no ambiguity, but nevermind. If you perceived it that way (and thus your character) it's fine as it is.
Fortunately I answered that too. No changing it now though. But it was ambigious enough to be interpreted either way. | |
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Mordred Dragon of the North
Posts : 2518 Join date : 2011-08-19 Age : 38 Location : London
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:27 am | |
| Thanks Tubby.
I hope we can now consider that Throne Room event over, the outcomes will be applied for the next Meta Game turn. Just a hint for you, there has been enough said to give you something to consider in the Nobility / Order relations, what they mean and how they are shaping up. The Nobles have had their "turn" with the outcomes, the chance now is for the Orders to make their own moves... the Voices are waiting to hear from you, if you have anything to say. | |
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Sir Haegon Knight
Posts : 1471 Join date : 2012-02-20 Location : Sarleon
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:14 am | |
| Didn't know where to bring this, but regarding Aranor's latest ; announcement':
I remember having written that Aelos was in fact at Javiksholm, but since I started to actually RP after DD pulled the Griffons back I could not make an entrance there. But that is not the real issue here, since the parchment was actually real and there were TWO on Aelos when he died, not to mention more in the Sarleon Chapterhouse adressed to Aelos and coming from the Duke. (or his representative)
Having these allegations spread through Pendor I'd like to request a Aranor to be at trial again.. I can in fact show multiple 'witnesses' among Griffon NPC's (who were used in RP's just like the Avendor trip, wich was ruled to have no consequences) that were present when Aelos expressed his hatred for the Red Dawn and his faith in Roland.
But, how (if I'm allowed) can I summon Aranor for his trial? | |
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Sir Aranor Grandmaster
Posts : 1918 Join date : 2011-08-20 Age : 29
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:24 am | |
| Last I recalled, Aelos was in Laria. You were granted access to the Javisholm event, but you were never officially in it.
Also, your chapterhouse has no proof of anything coming from Duke Brennus.
Also, who are these NPC's? | |
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Pravenstern Knight
Posts : 1632 Join date : 2011-08-20 Location : Finland
| Subject: Re: Throne Room OOC Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:30 am | |
| - Sir Aranor wrote:
Also, your chapterhouse has no proof of anything coming from Duke Brennus. Noble conversations, managed through pms. We do not put relevant info into our regular CH. | |
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