Manifest Destiny (Discussion)

I am, for once, on Ana's side.

It would also be a great stepping stone towards PoP4, exploring naval possibilities.


Edit

I would suggest the use of Carracks and Cogs

Furthermore I would like to use the rank of commodore for PC's who are in charge of their own ship. Making them one rank higher than a Captain. (I thought logical since a Griffon Knight has a captain rank within the Army)

And an example of a warship: The Santa Anna

Note, big update!;

- New Recruitment system
-- Dependant on relations with four different factions.
--- Zealots: This depends on how well the order sticks with their defining ideology, i.e. anti-Noldor for the Gauntlet, pro-Noldor for the Silvermist, Empire traditionalism for the Legion, Ravenstern autonomism for the Dragon, their respectice religions for Dawn and Eventide (need to find a way to implement the fact that 75% of the Eventide are currently not heretics at all), Pendor unionism for the Griffon. The modifier could vary between -0.5 (if you make a sudden political turn against your former ideology) and +0.5 (if you follow a clear agenda to further your ideological goals). Thus we could en passant implement the effects of unexpected decisions on the morale of the NPC order troops.
--- Peasantry: This would only add to the retainer recruitment modifier, since peasants might be skilled but are usually not well trained. Depending on your behaviour towards the peasantry this might also vary between -0.5 (burning villages, imposing harsh laws and fines, siding too much with power hungry lords and landowners) and +0.5 (donating money to peasants, using a lot of troops to defend villages against brigands, speaking on behalf of the peasantry in front of the nobility). We could introduce recruitment buildings in the hexes, e.g. village training grounds, that would increase this recruitment rate by additional +0.05 per structure.
--- Local Nobility: This would mainly work towards knight recruitment, (Clarion Calls for the Silvermist, since rangers aren't knights). Again -0.5 (supporting peasant revolts, trying to kick lords out of their castles in order to take over their holdings) to +0.5 (supporting the nobles in keeping the smallfolk down, dealing with revolts, using your influence on their behalf in the royal court.) We might also take into account the number of castles in an orders holdings, adding perhaps 0.05 for each castle of level at least 3.
--- Crown Loyalists: This would, just as Zealotry, add to both retainer and knight recruitment, depending on your standing with the crown. Ranging from -0.5 (supporting autonomist and rebellious lords, tax revolts and other actions against the central gouvernment, amassing too much power without using it for the good of the realm, starting unjustified feuds) to +0.5 (aiding the people of Pendor generally, ensuring peace, stability and loyalty to the crown in your holdings).
- Shrines, Chapels, Churchs and Cathedrals improve Peasantry Recruitment Modifier
- Fishing Huts for Coastal hexes (with castles or towns) to make them more valuable.
- Factory building income increased and upkeep decreased.
- Flax I and II (but not III) now buildable in Steppe.
-Tax rate which changes the base modifier for income Vs recruitment. Therefore with high taxation you get more money (+0.2 for instance) but lose out on recruitment due to resentment (-0.1 for both noble and peasants). We could even separate this out to Nobility and Peasant taxation.

- Raiding! This allows you to reduce the income of enemy provinces (but you do not keep the income, its just financial damage). For every 100RP of troops sent, +1 to raiding die roll.

1-25 : No bandit raids (0.0)
26-50 : Few bandit raids (-0.1)
51-70 : Several bandit raids (-0.2)
71-85 : Numerous bandit raids (-0.3)
86-95 : Serious bandit raids (-0.4)
96-100 : Bandit infestation (-0.5)

This would entirely do away with garrison requirements too, and instead introduce a "global" garrison figure which represents troops patrolling the home provinces. It would also allow Orders to raid each other, on a scale opposite to the patrol bonus (so send 1000RP to raid your neighbour would increase their banditry roll by 10)

Therefore have a -0.5 to +0.5 rating for taxation and a -0.5 to +0.5 rating for raids / mercantile efforts.

- Starting values;

	Silvermist	Gauntlet	Dawn	Eventide	Legion	Griffon
Zealots	0.1	0.1	0.2	0.1	0.2	0.0
Loyalists	0.4	0.2	0.1	0.2	0.4	0.3
Peasants	0.3	0.1	0.3	0.2	0.1	0.1
Nobles	0.0	0.1	-0.1	0.1	0.1	0.2
Merchants	-0.1	0.0	0.1	0.1	0.0	0.0
This sums to:
Knights modifier	0.0	0.1	-0.1	0.1	0.1	0.2
Retainers modifier	0.3	0.1	0.3	0.2	0.1	0.1
Distributable modifier	0.4	0.3	0.4	0.4	0.6	0.3
Total	0.7	0.5	0.6	0.7	0.8	0.6

Let me elaborate on this:

Since all orders have put some effort into not disgruntling any faction in the realm, I assumed a base value of 0.1 for everything except the merchants, which should reflect a slight support of the orders by the local population of all standings.

Silvermist: They have not enacted particular pro-Noldor plans, but their position in the Laria event makes their attitude clear enough for basic support (0.1), while sending a huge army to battle the snake cult has impressed many loyalists (0.4) and the peasants like the fortification of their villages (0.3). The noble support suffered a -0.1 penalty because the Silvermist supports the siege of Javiksholm (0.0). The infestation with the remaining Jatu leads to a -0.1 for the merchants.

Gauntlet: Analogous to the Silvermist for Zealots, so 0.1 remains. Tubby's pro-King attitude appeals to loyalists (0.3). No pro-peasant actions were taken (0.1), nobles are on 0.0 because of Javiksholm and the merchants are neutral towards them.

Dawn: They now stick clearly to their new ideology/faith and so loyal/new Dawn zealots like this (0.3). Loyalists see the dedication to root out a dangerous group like the red dawn but frown on sieging javiksholm, so no effect in total (0.1), while the peasants appreciate that the Dawn saved them from the Red Dawn patrols (0.3). Nobles frown on sieging a fief of a lord of the realm (-0.1) while the merchants like the recently started project of counter-Vanskerry watchposts along the coast (0.1, more upon completion).

Eventide: No particular actions for or against nobles and zealots (both 0.1), peasants appreciate the attempts to pacify parts of Singal (0.2) and loyalists and merchants like the plans for a cooperation with the Griffon to establish a safe trade route (0.2 and 0.1).

Legion: Sticking to their new pro-Pendor line attracts appropriate zealots (0.3) and crown loyalists value the dedication in the fight against the cult (0.4). Neither peasants nor nobles have been addressed in particular by any actions (both 0.1) nor has anything be done for the merchants (0.0).

Griffon: The Griffon has until now watched Pendor refracture into the influence spheres of the other orders without taking counteractions, so zealots are disappointed (0.0). Still the Griffons have a generally stronger support from loyalists, especially since Darlion has all the more stressed the allegiance to the king in person (0.3). Peasants and nobles are unaffected (0.1), Merchants are unaffected, too (0.0).



More updates to follow, including Naval raids and blockades, plus an overhaul of unit and building costs.

I applaud this 100%

Even though every Order's mission is different, I'm sure the GMs will be able to maintain a balance that can reward good RP.



/shakefist>waitingfornavalraids

Does this mean we should raid the villages belonging to other Orders?
Seems a bit cruel...

I don't see the Dawn doing that, or Orders loyal to the Crown.

Villages or holdings. We're discussing the current use of resources too and they will become of far greater importance in the future so raids on warehouses (still in development) will be more feasable too.

Any kind of hostile act can cost diplomatically. Once the Orders become a bit more tense, those diplomatic costs will be less, relatively speaking.

Be advised that any raiding on our land will be repaid with ten times the amount of damage dealt to us :3

What about raiding your coasts?

I am terrified of that solely for the name of your special unit, Marinus.

A note on the recruitment modifiers and how they work: (Btw, Mordred, this time you plagiarised my whole post... where are we getting to? )

The base modifier for each order is 1.5 which can be distributed freely among retainers and knights. Then the freely distributable modifiers from zealots, loyalists and merchants can be distributed and finally the peasant and noble modifiers are added to retainers and knights respectively. The resulting values are multiplied by 10 for knights and 20 for retainers to yield the actual numbers. The total value (i.e. the sum of all modifiers) is multiplied by 2000 to give the funds/donations the order received during the season.
Castles, shrines and statues to the king will also give additional bonus modifiers. Each Castle of level at least 3 (i.e. what is called "Castle" in the info sheet, no hill forts or stockades) gives +0.1 to the knights and each shrine gives +0.1, each chapel +0.2 to the peasants. Churches give 0.3, Cathedrals +0.4. The statue to the king adds 0.3 to the loyalists.

Let's have a look at an example:

The Dawn has the following modifiers in total:

1.5 base modifier, -0.1 knights, 0.3 retainers, 0.4 freely distributable. Additionally they have, say for instance, 2 lvl-3-castles (--> 2 x +0.1 = +0.2 for knights) and a shrine (+0.1 for retainers)

That means they can freely distribute 1.9 among their knights and retainers. Say they give 1.2 to knights and 0.7 to retainers. The other modifiers add to this and result in 1.2 - 0.1 + 0.2 = 1.3 for knights and 0.7 + 0.3 + 0.1 = 1.1 for retainers. The total modifier is then 2.4.

Therefore they will get 1.3 x 10 = 13 knights, 1.1 x 20 = 22 retainers/squires and funds/donations of 2.4 x 2000 RP = 4800 RP.

It was the result of a good discussion and well worded. No point writing it all out again.

(c) Prophesy of Pendor : Aftermath LTD

Modified some numbers slightly since the final result would be considered average but was a bit low. (Still adjusting parameters for the new system)

Iskar, I'm not certain if you're a genius or utterly insane. (Or if there is even a difference in this case.)

But sincerely, thank you.

Another note on the Silvermist (since they/we have no retainer unit)

Their peasant modifier will add to Ranger recruitment and the knights modifier to Clarion Call recruitment. To balance things the base modifier will be 0.8 instead of 1.5 (since they have been introduced as a small elite order, so their recruitment is slower and harder) and both values will be multiplied by 10 not 20.

...And still the Silvermists are probably the most active order after the Dawn...

Poor Legion.

Dawn activity has taken a major hit. We'll see in the next week or two what we're really at, player-wise.

I've not been able to find it, but what are the costs/incomes of the fishing huts?

Do Shrines and Churches have any impact on zealots as well, or just the peasantry?

Upkeep of all castle structures has been lowered, but to build a fortress you now need to have skilled craftsmen and for a citadel journeyman craftsmen in that province.

Info sheet in first post of the rules has been updated.

Next turn will be the first turn of the new season and the first season in which we use the modified funds/recruits system. Therefore I need you all to tell me the distribution of your 1.5 base modifier as well as what ever distributable bonus modifiers you get according to the table in "Balance of Power" (cf. Standing with the people). Please just send me your decisions via PM.

OK ... I am very sorry but I have no Idea what to do with that.

We have 0.1 Knight modifier and 0.1 Retainer modifier...
and 0.6 distributable modifier...

does that mean we can just ad the 0.6 to either knight oder retainer modifier? (plus the 1.5 you mentioned)

That means you can freely distribute 1.5 + 0.6 = 2.1 among knights and retainer, e.g. 0.2 on centurions, 1.2 on legionnaires and 0.7 on retainers.

Ok I just read through the example a page earlier ... Do our level 3 Castles count? right now we 2 of them and when finished with the next orders we have 4..

Would that add an additional 0.4 to the modifier?

Yeah, I have already added each order's castles and shrines to the spreadsheet though, so the only thing you need to do is tell me what you want to do with the distributable modifiers.

Of course it is good to know in general how much you get: Each Castle of level at least 3 gives 0.1 to knights, shrines give 0.1 to retainers, chapels 0.2 and so on.

This new system is awesome, Iskar.

Will some of the groups be a bit mutually-exclusive, at least for the points based on RP? I mainly mean things like peasants and nobles, though in the case of some Orders, Zealots and Loyalists could be at odds depending on the position of the Crown.

Ok one last thing, what is the base number for Centurions/Legionaires/Retainers...... is it 1/10/20 so if we stick with your example we would get 0.2 Centurions??? 12 Legionaires and 14 Retainers