Pendorian Religions

I would love to work with you on this Aranor! Ive already got a few ideas brewing up in my head as we speak.

Yeah im well aware we have very little on faith as far as lore goes. Thats why im ready and willing to help expand on that front.

I'll send you a resource right quick on the formation of the combined dawn, (before we split)

I wanted to guide my character more into the religious sphere too: I extended his bio in the forum some months ago in order to reflect that, but haven't gone much farther than that, mostly because it depends of us winning the current war against the Snake Cult.

It would be Theo's interpretation of Noldor philosophy, working more like a popular soldier's cult than like an organized religion i.e. not with priest and rituals, but aiming at making the soldiers actually want to emulate some Noldorian traits. We Silvermists say we worship the Noldor culture and all that, but besides using bows and shouting battle commands in Noldori no one of us has ever RPed anything in that direction.

A cult that wishes to raise the Noldor to divinity? I like that idea!

Though as far as Noldor faith goes weve got almost nothing to work with at the moment. Id be more than willing to help you form the basis of your cult's beliefs though should you wish it.

...Pendorians really like their goddesses.

On that note, fleshing things out sounds like a great idea. Understanding the faiths in fact seems to be the perfect way to understand exactly why Pendor's orders and peoples do what they do. In fact, not to jump on any bandwagons in the excitement of the moment (though I am), I'd be interested in aiding in this. I really enjoy creating things like back stories, so creating histories, legends and the like for these religions sounds like fun.

There you go then Saeros, youve got yourself a fellow Silvermist partner!

Right now though I think its all about brainstorming ideas and gaining the dev teams approval. I would like to hear what everyone can come up with though to guide us on our way!

Thanks, I believe we three could do something reasonable already.

What is great about religions is that we only need some basic unchangeable principles from the devs for lore consistency. Then, just like in the real world, we can develop those principles in different directions, according to our characters' beliefs, contexts or political convenience.

Im thinking that we should start by finding real world equivalents to take inspiration from, as I believe that if not all then most of Pendor's faiths have been based loosely around the faiths of our world.

I see the Astraeaite faith as being similar to medieval Catholicism so that in itself gives much material to work with.

I believe any faith concerning the Noldor would probably be similar to the ancient Nordic religions. I know that elves were involved heavily in their mythos, so maybe the inspiration you need could come from there.

Well, I'm leaving for night, I still got an article to finish today. I copypasted part of Theo's bio to give you an idea of his religious plans.

(...) That said, it is not clear whether his sudden fondness for religious matters sprang genuinely or only as a means for improving his soldiers’ morale and battle skills. The fact, however, is that his already semi-ascetic code of honor became even more strict, and Theo started advocating an “one with the Noldor” philosophy. In practice this meant attending mainly to two different goals: self-perfection through battle (so as to become as skilled as a Noldor), and defending Pendor’s balance at all costs (so as to allow all things, including knowledge, to prosper as the Noldor race has). Needless to say, these are very useful qualities for a soldier.

Whatever the case may be, he provided solid arguments for his belief. As the tale goes, his long study hours had made him develop the simplistic Silvermist philosophy taught at the chapter house into something more profound. His reasoning was that “understanding the Noldor” is impossible, unless you are one of them. “Therefore”, he thought, “the proper course of action would be to become as similar to them as possible”. In his mind, this meant providing a stable kingdom for wisdom to flourish, and, naturally, becoming as skilled, insightful and perceptive as one of the forest folk.

But there was a catch: “humans don’t live as long as Noldor. Consequently, acquiring such wisdom is improbable”. His solution was arguing that there is no time to lose. One must continuously strive for perfection and must accept all opportunities for developing one’s skills. And the best means for doing this, as he stated, was throwing oneself in battle again and again, with courage and cleverness. As a consequence, a follower of this philosophy would never let pass an opportunity to fight, and would never allow anything to threaten Pendor's stability.


By the way, I think we really need religious back stories. Who were the prophets? What were their deeds and miracles? Where and how did they live? What were their trials? What was Astraea's relation to Ullr'Vetr and Vata? Which god is brother from whom? Things like that.


To Celdiur: I recall reading those names somewhere. I think Astraea was a Greek Dawn goddess (or Persian... not sure). Ullr/Vetr is also not unfamiliar, but I can't trace the memory. Vejovis too.

I would have to say right now, that as with anything Pendor related new stuff regarding the Noldor cannot be considered canon as SD is very protective of their culture, and rarely gave anything out about them even to us. The other faiths however should be OK. One thing I KNOW would help the developers is more work on the Snake faith, that is one aspect of the game I had meant to bury into but never got around to it, and as far as I know remains untouched.

Snake faith is one area that you can really impact PoP4 development if DD and Azlanek take the ideas on board...

Then Saeros's philosophy would be more of a "seek perfection in yourself and the world around you"

So it depends on SD and he usually does not disclose Noldor things, meaning any RP related to Noldor culture will be rather improbable. At any rate, that's okay - whatever mine becomes will only be possible after curent event, which still got some months ahead. Until then, perhaps he does give us some hints of what lies in Elacrai.

Quote :

and the world around you"

More like:
"keep the world still and stable so that I can learn something from it without dying!"

In the end I suppose you can believe what you want about the Noldor, be it canon or not. Its simply Saeros's interpretation of what he believes to be the path to understanding the Noldor and bettering himself as a consequence.

That's partially true. I think the chief concern is that unless the strings are loosened a little on the Noldor, then Theo's quest will never be fulfilled.

The poor man...he doesn't realize what he's in for.

Anyway, yes, looking at history is a good start. However, I tend to find that looking at it can inadvertently restrict the mind. I'm one for using one's imagination and running with it. Then you go back and revise twenty times to get all the kinks out.

I would certainly carry things to the dev board when they are advanced enough, and as my people know, I have also already had some ideas about Astraea, or more specifically about how the Eventide's side of her worship might look like.

*cough* pentagram *cough*

The pentagram's a symbol of God (among other things), actually.

Flipped upside down is the Satanic one.

*cough* upside down pentagram *cough*

havent got much time now, but I think our development of Pendorian religions must avoid all kind of references to real world religions, especially pentagrams and crosses. there are people from very different countries here and many are sensitive to therse matters. this way we can avoid potential flame wars.

@Azlanek

Would you be up for sharing any of your ideas with me?

I would think a scales would be the sign of Astraea, whenever i draw Dawn Knights I always put a scales somewhere on thier armour.

@Celdiur: It is not much so far. I put it into my last post discussing the Eventide's emblem.

Consider the religions and beliefs, I believe, as only shaman, that shamanism is kinda same everywhere, spirits and connection to nature and animals and that kind of thing. So will this be outside of this religion thing or will it part of this conversation?Just curious.

Its a big generalization to say that i think, like saying all white people have exact same culture. Connection to nature and land, and the peoples interaction with it, is tightly linked to the landscape. For example, in Australia, it was a harsh place for stone age Aborginals, especially in the desert, if they took more than they needed, or over hunted a creature, the ecosystem would collapse, and as this continent is getting drier and drier, there was serious risk of destroying your home and land if u screwed it up, thats why we see (again in very broad and general terms) that most of the individual tribes believed they had a "role" in the ecosystem, to not take more than necescary etc etc. In Island nations living on the doorstep of a volcano, they came to find they were affected by the calamity regardless of there actions in environment, and so they turned to things like sacrifices, appealing to a force greater than themselves to intervene.

Stepping away from my christian bias and putting my philathropist hat on, the spiritualistic and nature religions are around when humans live short, brutal lives in small tight knit groups living as...well, beasts really. As we work together more and more and get beyond a tight group of individuals religion becomes less about role in nature and more role in society: obey laws, be kind, look out for those weaker than you, the sorts of thing larger societies need to keep people from each others throats. Then as a society gets as advanced such as now, it seems it is sadly more and more rejected as outdated superstition, or simply forgotted in our busy lives. One of the key aspects of religions it seems is that it is based around people remembering that there are forces greater than themselves, and they must respect those forces.

Flame war disclaimer: All beliefs are true, just to a given value of truth.

Well, I'll just share my ad-hoc imagination regarding the different religions with you in order to give the discussion some input to work on:

Astraean Church - Very strict and serious, no unnecessary pomp, rather an ascetic serenity. High vaults with only one window to the east as architectural signature. A bit like the inquisitorial branch of medieval catholicism. Clergy: c.f. Dawn's organisation

Church of Thallo Ver Shures - Clergy: Matriarch of Javiksholm and priestesses who act as healers and perform fertility rites for the peasants. Small round temples that serve as infirmary, too, scattered over the countryside. Present in most major villages, very close to the population and thus no real political power. Prevalent colours: Brown, Orange and dark Green.

Church of Ullr Vetr - Clergy: Archdeacon of Poinsbruk, priests and military deacons. Closely tied to the Ravenstern Rangers, traditionally blessed Ravenstern armies before going to battle. Military deacons serve as field surgeons often and accompany armies. Traditionally built churches in most northern towns, chapels in most major villages. Also present (although less prominent) in the east of former Sarleon (--> Clarion Call). Buildings made of solid rock with small windows and battlements, like medieval fortified churches. Colours: Blue, Grey and light Green.

Church of Eunomia Stabilitis - Clergy: Archbishop of Sarleon and priests. Cathedrals in all former Sarleon towns, monasteries scattered over the land. Old Pendorian state religion, therefore clergy takes interests in politics with a tendency to conservative positions. Second sons of nobles often choose a clerical career, therefore this church is rather wealthy and holds considerable influence in the nobility and thus politics of central Pendor in general. Colours: Red, Purple and Silver.

Church of Vata - Clergy: Highpriest of Torbah, priests and tribal mystics. D'Shar style churches (high arabesque windows, ornaments, mosque-like architecture with courtyards etc.) in all major settlements of the former principalities, shrines in many villages. Due to the unbroken worship of the renegade D'Shar this church is the only link between D'Shar establishment in the cities and the desert raiders. Colours: Yellow, Orange and Brown.

Church of Damia Provideo - Clergy: Pontiff of Ethos and priests. Branch of the original state religion of the Baccus Empire, therefore fierce antagonists of the snake cult. Temples in old Baccus style, with columns, basically like roman/greek temples. Closely tied to the Empire, has preserved the old pomp of Baccus and is involved in all important political issues of the former Empire. Was responsible for religious support of imperial elections and supported the bureaucracy by maintaining scriptoria throughout the land. Monasteries served as administrative centres for collecting taxes, assessing harvests, solving minor law suits, etc. Priests and monks often had positions among the imperial administration. A lot like the administrative/public aspects of medieval catholicism. Colours: Gold, Red and Black.