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 Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts

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Sir Aranor
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:36 am

I agree, I want to go back to the meeting or my cell.

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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:11 am

Agreed. I think it does not matter if we each get in another reply. Pretty much we cannot do much more than saying "I'm right despite his arguments" and "No, he's not". It looks like everything important has been said, the rest would be rhetorics...

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Tubby McChubbles
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:25 am

I thought we were all about the rhetoric?

ARANOR IS GUILTY. GUILTY AS A GOOSE THAT GELDS GRANDPARENTS. GUILTY.

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"As the plague hit Paris and killed thousands, in England the king held a series of splendid tournaments. In mid-February he was jousting at Reading, then later that month at Bury St Edmunds, where he appeared dressed in a huge bird costume."

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-The war cry of Baron Walter de Masny

Project X-Ray: A US army project to strap incendiary bombs to bats and release them over Japan. The plan was abandoned after the bats escaped and destroyed a hangar and a general's car in New Mexico.


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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:36 am

It's a matter of interpreting what was said. Fortunately we all had scribes, and so there is no dispute about what was said. Given the nature of Iskar's defense (claiming the quotes were not in line with what Sir Azrael said), it's important to have a retort. There are nearly thirty pages of what was said, having to retort a retort takes time, as the context now has to be re-clarified.

Hopefully we'll get it up soon, otherwise we'll just flood you with 5 pages of treasonous talk. Wink
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Tubby McChubbles
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:41 am

My thoughts on this entire thing all centre around something that isn't instituted yet, and won't be until after the trial. Codification of treason into petty/high, etc. I'm honestly having a lot of trouble working out what Lucius would do.

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"As the plague hit Paris and killed thousands, in England the king held a series of splendid tournaments. In mid-February he was jousting at Reading, then later that month at Bury St Edmunds, where he appeared dressed in a huge bird costume."

"Manny! Manny to the rescue!"
-The war cry of Baron Walter de Masny

Project X-Ray: A US army project to strap incendiary bombs to bats and release them over Japan. The plan was abandoned after the bats escaped and destroyed a hangar and a general's car in New Mexico.


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Saeros
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:48 am

Quote :
Hopefully we'll get it up soon, otherwise we'll just flood you with 5 pages of treasonous talk

The king has read the transcription IC, there's no need for copypasting it all. I think each side just has to make a point for the judges.
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:50 am

Which indeed must be made. My point was that the Griffons are not making their case with rhetoric. And due to the defense that was made, a great deal of context has to now be pointed out. It's very unfun to have to do, but that's the way the RP went.

Edit: On the note of codification. Unwritten laws are no less legitimate than unwritten laws in such an era, especially where Kings are concerned. Liberalism is still a ways off from shaping up in Pendor on more than a small scale within an organization like the Silvermists.

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Saeros
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:53 am

Quote :
Edit: On the note of codification. Unwritten laws are no less legitimate than unwritten laws in such an era, especially where Kings are concerned. Liberalism is still a ways off from shaping up in Pendor on more than a small scale within an organization like the Silvermists.

Wat. Truly didn't get it.
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Tubby McChubbles
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:54 am

It's not a matter of precedent, it's the fact that treason at this stage is completely down to the king. Moreso than any other crime. Also, "petty" treason used to have the same range of punishments as high.

Codifying treason was nothing to do with liberalism.

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"As the plague hit Paris and killed thousands, in England the king held a series of splendid tournaments. In mid-February he was jousting at Reading, then later that month at Bury St Edmunds, where he appeared dressed in a huge bird costume."

"Manny! Manny to the rescue!"
-The war cry of Baron Walter de Masny

Project X-Ray: A US army project to strap incendiary bombs to bats and release them over Japan. The plan was abandoned after the bats escaped and destroyed a hangar and a general's car in New Mexico.


Spoiler:
 
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:58 am

The punishment will be up to the King. Factually, it's a matter of whether what Aranor said violates what the King just said. The rhetoric is the politics of the matter, and politics is in everything... so what does a character do? That's what we'll see. Hopefully we'll have the response up soon, it's simply very unfun to have to do.


@Saeros - I went through the whole throne room again, there was a LOT of liberal thinking going on. Unwritten laws, in the matter of whether treason has been a codified offense, is irrelevant to a non-liberal/medieval mind. Written and unwritten laws are the same as a written vs oral story.... it doesn't matter, it's just how it is presented. That which pleases the King is law, that which does not please the King is illegal. Izzy said as much when warning Marcus.
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Tubby McChubbles
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:01 am

My point was pretty much unrelated. It's that the result of this trial will be pressure from the nobles to codify treason.

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"As the plague hit Paris and killed thousands, in England the king held a series of splendid tournaments. In mid-February he was jousting at Reading, then later that month at Bury St Edmunds, where he appeared dressed in a huge bird costume."

"Manny! Manny to the rescue!"
-The war cry of Baron Walter de Masny

Project X-Ray: A US army project to strap incendiary bombs to bats and release them over Japan. The plan was abandoned after the bats escaped and destroyed a hangar and a general's car in New Mexico.


Spoiler:
 
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:02 am

Oh, right.
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Saeros
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:03 am

Quote :
that which does not please the King is illegal

We will have to sort that out soon, as nearly half of the orders don't think that's the case.
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:05 am

What the Orders think is irrelevant, unless they intend to try to force their views upon the King.

In which case, it shouldn't be done in the capital city, surrounded by the King's forces. Otherwise the King simply has them rounded up, which is probably what the Griffons should have done right away instead of verbal warnings. Sad
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Saeros
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:08 am

Well, even Modred said Pendor is not an absolute monarchy. Hence the "we'll have to sort it soon".
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Iskar
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:28 am

Isabel Tenorio wrote:
@Saeros - I went through the whole throne room again, there was a LOT of liberal thinking going on. Unwritten laws, in the matter of whether treason has been a codified offense, is irrelevant to a non-liberal/medieval mind. Written and unwritten laws are the same as a written vs oral story.... it doesn't matter, it's just how it is presented. That which pleases the King is law, that which does not please the King is illegal. Izzy said as much when warning Marcus.
I strongly disagree with that view. Pendor is not a constitutional monarchy, but neither an absolute one. But before we get us in another fruitless discussion, best wait for Mordred's IC reaction at the end of the trial.

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Tubby McChubbles
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:41 am

Even if Pendor were an absolute monarchy, the rulers who acted like it generally weren't around for long. Even in the RP, the rangers and the gauntlet are technically devoted to the people, the religious orders are obviously religious. Legion want the restoration of Old Baccus virtues.

Give us a goddamn reason, Mordred, I dare you.

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"As the plague hit Paris and killed thousands, in England the king held a series of splendid tournaments. In mid-February he was jousting at Reading, then later that month at Bury St Edmunds, where he appeared dressed in a huge bird costume."

"Manny! Manny to the rescue!"
-The war cry of Baron Walter de Masny

Project X-Ray: A US army project to strap incendiary bombs to bats and release them over Japan. The plan was abandoned after the bats escaped and destroyed a hangar and a general's car in New Mexico.


Spoiler:
 
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Sir Haegon
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:44 am

Tubby McChubbles wrote:
Even if Pendor were an absolute monarchy, the rulers who acted like it generally weren't around for long.

It's not like they claim every pretty girl in the Kingdom because it's their right, oh wait.. those who did actually died of old age or illness. Seriously, It's not like Mordred won't give an explanation for what he did, thus there is no real reason for the people to revolt... because how can they know the truth.. and who do you trust? the rebellious power craving opposer or the King that brought unity to the realm.

But, I must admit that I'd like a war.
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Isabel Tenorio
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:46 am

Mordred already clarified that Pendor is, in practice, an absolute monarchy. De jure, it is nothing but the personal property of the conquerer King Mordred, who as of yet, has not gifted the populace with a legal code or other formal structures beyond making the nobility his tenants. It's rather clear in the Power of the King thread. >.>

As to rising against the King in this transitional period... that's what the RP is for, after all. Just don't expect to be saved by RP armor if that is the choice made. Wink
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Tubby McChubbles
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:51 am

Aelos wrote:
Tubby McChubbles wrote:
Even if Pendor were an absolute monarchy, the rulers who acted like it generally weren't around for long.

It's not like they claim every pretty girl in the Kingdom because it's their right, oh wait.. those who did actually died of old age or illness. .

What medieval king did that? Razz

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"As the plague hit Paris and killed thousands, in England the king held a series of splendid tournaments. In mid-February he was jousting at Reading, then later that month at Bury St Edmunds, where he appeared dressed in a huge bird costume."

"Manny! Manny to the rescue!"
-The war cry of Baron Walter de Masny

Project X-Ray: A US army project to strap incendiary bombs to bats and release them over Japan. The plan was abandoned after the bats escaped and destroyed a hangar and a general's car in New Mexico.


Spoiler:
 
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Marcus the Shadow Fighter
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:54 am

One Persian King did that, but haven't heard of any Medieval ones... not in stories at least.

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:56 am

Probably all of them, honestly I was thinking about monarchs that lived after the medieval times.

But still, it would be a miracle if there was ONE King who didn't.
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:59 am

I doubt they needed to do much 'claiming' in order to sleep with anyone they wanted.

Unlimited power, unlimited wealth (at least until the creditors get angry after a few generations!), and legions of sycophants can be very persuasive without being coercive.
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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:36 am

A feudal kingship is never completely absolute. If the king pisses of the majority of the vassals they will rise against him no matter who owns the land de iure, since they own it de facto.

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PostSubject: Re: Throne Room OOC - Archived Parts   Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:40 am

Iskar wrote:
A feudal kingship is never completely absolute. If the king pisses of the majority of the vassals they will rise against him no matter who owns the land de iure, since they own it de facto.

But Mordred stand up for (protects) the Nobles if he decides in Darlion's favor.
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