Prophesy of Pendor : Aftermath
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An RPG detailing the aftermath of the events of PoP3 and the events before PoP4
 
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 IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)

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Curanthir
Psychozoa
Laisha
Zekic Thunion of Laria
Sir Celdiur Moriendor
Datedsandwich
Kamos
Aldric of Marleons
Tubby McChubbles
tobberman
Sir Aranor
Sir Haegon
Pravenstern
Ser Varys
Saeros
Isabel Tenorio
Marcus the Shadow Fighter
Iskar
22 posters
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Isabel Tenorio
Knight
Isabel Tenorio


Posts : 1610
Join date : 2012-06-20

IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 9:14 am

"There are many benefits for the city in question to be given its own government. The question is whether it is best for Pendor and best for the man that rules all this land, King Mordred."

She took a sip of her water.

"Nal Tir is a far better choice than all that you've mentioned. It is separated from the rest of the D'shar lands, it is coastal and it is in no threat of the Snake Cult. As to fears of this 'Shadow' be assured that King Mordred takes the security of his realm seriously."
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Sir Aranor
Grandmaster
Sir Aranor


Posts : 1918
Join date : 2011-08-20
Age : 29

IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 9:46 am

"Javiksholm is under no threat of the Snake Cult, coastal, and it is separated from the D'Shar lands. A minus to picking Nal Tar is that it is inhabited by the D'Shar. The D'Shar tribes all have feuds with each other, and if we make Nal Tar a free city, the feuds will escalate and more crime will be committed over merchants competing. It is not a sure thing, but I would rather not take the risk."
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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar


Posts : 4142
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 36
Location : Germany

IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 10:04 am

Oh, I am sure his majesty does that, Iskar addressed Isabel, but would you care not to fob this council off with vague statements like that? We are to discuss the very basis of the feudal organisation of this realm. If you have anything noteworthy to say about how to control the Shadow, go ahead, but refrain from such claims without information backing them up. While the Shadow obviously pays taxes and rents in time and does not seem to oppose his majesty openly, he still ignores royal decrees and is a source of irritation in the realm due to his unpredictability and the bad example he gives to overly ambitious nobles.

Leaning back in his chair a bit he continued.

Now, Singal may be famous, or rather infamous, for the slavers, the Red Brotherhood and the generally corrupt officials. While this is certainly a nuisance, it is by itself not a direct danger to the realm. Nal Tar, however, is the city of the Scorpion Assassins and I would not want any kind of uncontrollable people to get in control of these, or the security of the realm might be in real danger.

Furthermore, how would you plan to explain to the other lords, why Caliph Hamid, of whom no unlawful or disloyal actions are known, is suddenly deprived of his rightful heritage, the duchy of Nal Tar. And even adding to that list, there are only economical advantages to the choice of Nal Tar among those you named. Declaring a city to be free of feudal rule is a very powerful instrument and should not be used without the greatest possible political and economical use for the realm.

This leads me to our suggestion of the city of Marleons.

Duke Aelfwine has openly defied the law of halves in the past years, causing unrest amongst his neighbours and impeding the rebuilding of his duchy. There are even no reports that he used his numerous troops to any beneficial purpose such as hunting the countless brigands and rogue knights. Removing him from his source of power would render his majesty with one problem less to care about. Moreover, the other nobles know about Aelfwine's actions and his neighbours are rather uneasy about the military of Marleons, so it would not be hard to gather support for Aelfwine's removal from Marleons among the nobles.

Of course, openly opposing such a powerful noble needs proper preparation. In order to disperse worries about the Silvermist army, we would provide it to the crown to the purpose of ensuring a safe passing of power from Aelfwine to a city council of merchants, craftsmen and patricians.
The latter can also be included in the plans, as the prospect of becoming a free city should ensure their support and thus that of the city watch. The latter can then keep the heavy cavalry of Marleons at bay in their barracks if the cavalry commanders cannot be won over before the coup.

After Aelfwine's successful removal from power the city can fully develop its economic potential, lying on the crossing of several trade routes, from Laria to the west and from Sarleon to Laria and the north-east, as well as having a harbour that enables fast and cheap transportation of goods from the north to the central regions and vice versa for everything that needs to be transported to the north. You might think that the trade routes from Laria to the central and western regions are not as important as the trade on the western coast, but I would like to remind you that the amount of goods produced in the counties around and north of Laria currently exceeds the production of any similarly sized region of Pendor. Timber, Spices, Iron, Granite and Gold come from the east. And from the south, from the lands of the Gauntlet and the Legion come more goods, flax, granite and timber. Currently these goods only pass below the greedy eyes of a lord of doubtful loyalty to the crown, instead of their worth and use being multiplied by a free merchant city.
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Isabel Tenorio
Knight
Isabel Tenorio


Posts : 1610
Join date : 2012-06-20

IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 10:17 am

"Caliph Hamid would have to be compensated for the loss of his current title. You speak of stripping a nobleman of his title, of coups and threats... this is not playtime, Constable. The true disenfranchisement of a nobleman is a serious affair, and an affair this council has no right to consider. The King and the King alone can propose the overthrow of a nobleman. We may remind His Majesty that he has that power, but to suggest its use is nothing short of hubris. If you wish to make any city a free city, the lord must be properly compensated. To suggest otherwise is a grievous violation of law and conscience."

Isabel took a longer drink of her water before she continued.

"I had assumed such was known, and it did not need to be spelled out to a Council made of you fine gentlemen. It is for this reason that talk of creating a Free City merely because the King mentioned its possibility is folly. There are many lords in this realm that have not always acted with the King's best interests, and it is up to the King and His Majesty alone to pursue charges of treason.

"Perhaps the King was mistaken to trust this council with such an important matter, as you approach it so lightly."
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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar


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Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 36
Location : Germany

IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 10:28 am

And what city would you give to the lord to be compensated? Unfortunately we have no free, rulerless cities standing around in Pendor's beautiful landscape, or would you want to insult the respective lord by giving him the rather nominal title of Duke of Singal?

Well, if you want to compensate the lord with a county, which are you going to take? The rich and pleasant ones happen to be all taken. Do you want to offer the Lone Coast or the Windbreak Mountains to a man that has by birthright ruled a whole duchy before? And if you compensate him with one or two of the more desirable counties, how do you compensate the former lords of these? Cause a chain reaction of disgraceful expropriations, upsetting the better part of the nobility?

Moreover, you still do not seem to understand the task of this council. We have been ordered here by his majesty to work out a full recommendation for the reorganisation of the realm. This can of course include every action that is within his majesty's power. And while we are not the ones to enact these recommended measures, it is our duty to think about them all. Now, adding a courteous "If his majesty consents, one could..." in front of everything we suggest, seems to be unnecessary unless you deem most of the council members imbeciles.
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Isabel Tenorio
Knight
Isabel Tenorio


Posts : 1610
Join date : 2012-06-20

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 10:53 am

"A recommendation for this realm that includes taking a drastic, rebellion-inducing measure that His Majesty has not himself taken is simply foolish, Lord Constable.


"There is, however, sufficient land for Caliph Hamid. I am most disappointed in you, Lord Constable. Caliph Hamid shall be made Lord of the Steppe, and he shall guide the peoples of the former Jatu lands to unity with Pendor. He is well-qualified to survive in terrain such as that, and understands the kind of society that must be built upon a steppe. A title of great honor, the ear of His Majesty, and all the resources he needs. We shall settle two issues with one action. You have your free city, and the whole realm prospers from the decision."
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Saeros
Voice of the Nobility
Saeros


Posts : 1863
Join date : 2011-08-22
Location : Avernus

IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 11:42 am

"Is Caliph Hamir, used to D'Shar's tribal and male-centered society, really qualified to rule a duchy of Veccavians? Neighboring Noldor and Ravenstern separatists?

It does not matter. We are drifting away from the central issue. Let us put that to vote: how many grandmasters support Nal Tar as candidate for the Status of free city? How many support Marleons, Javiksholm and Ishkoman?"


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Sir Aranor
Grandmaster
Sir Aranor


Posts : 1918
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Age : 29

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 12:00 pm

Aranor faced Isabel with a scowl

"Caliph Hamid has served the people of Nal Tar for many years. He has served faithfully, with distinction. To even suggest stripping him of his title for solely economical benefits is despicable Isabel. Why do Aelfwine or Redsword deserve to keep his title over Hamid?

Not even waiting for a response, Aranor faces the council


"Iskar, I respect your proposal. I understand the threat that Duke Aelfwine poses. I can see that you mean the best for the good of the realm. But, I must disagree.

Council members! Remember how Iskar mentioned that the power to make a free city mustn't be used without the greatest political and economical use to the realm?

Marleons would be a waste of the choice. Duke Aelfwine is not a dumb man, he is not ignoring the law of halves to cause problems, he is doing it because he is scared. He is scared everyday as he holds onto his throne, that it might be his last. Is that a good justification? No. He is disobeying the king's laws, and will be punished for it. But, we have to go about it cautiously. Taking away his title outright will cause repercussions throughout the realm that might do more harm then good.

Plus, he is not an unreasonable man. Aelfwine does care about his city, and how much money it will rake in. The Silvermists hold considerable influence there, and any economic capability Marleons has, they will make sure is used. The Silvermist Rangers can take care of Marleons for the time being, and we can plan to take Aelfwine out of power.

However, the situation in Javiksholm is quite the opposite. Duke Aedin Redsword is an open threat to all of us. Darlion here can testify that I speak the truth when I say that he is the immediate threat here, not Aelfwine. Duke Aedin is housing an illegal knight order in Javiksholm right now, they are known as the Red Dawn. The Red Dawn are all the fanatical elements of my order. The elements that burn villages and hunt "heretics" . The Red Dawn is not only operating with his permission, but with his endorsement. They are burning villages, attacking peasants, and taking resources away from his citizens. The economic state of the Duchy of Javiksholm is horrible. While Aelfwine only stocks up troops, Aedin is hoarding resources and killing the labor that makes them. Every day there are burnings in Javiksholm, even from the smallest infractions.

He is an unreasonable man, he is completely ignoring his duchy. While we and other patricians can suggest constructions and invest in cities such as Marleon or Nal Tar, Aedin allows no such thing. He just sits in Javiksholm, ordering his Red Dawn knights to run out and threaten peasants for supplies, counting his tax money.

The Red Dawn threat is also spreading. It has spread to Windholm and Ironoak. Aedin has managed to bully nobles and use his power as a duke to force the Red Dawn into those areas. Duke Aedin is spreading his terror outside of the borders of his own duchy, while Aelfwine is mostly keeping to himself. Do not let my personal hatred of the Red Dawn influence your decision, let their actions speak for themselves. The order is a threat to our kingdom's security and well-being. No vassal should be allowed to get away with spreading something like them.

Javiksholm is a vital port city. Right now, it is being squandered by a insolent vassal who is openly causing problems for the crown. Nobody is rebuilding the region, it is in fact being scorched by a rogue order. It is a port city that has a link to the west, to Barclay and beyond. The merchants in Javiksholm, the ones being killed and called heretics, have important trade connections, they have access to countries that have resources that we need, and countries that need resources that we have. We need to take advantage of the economic capabilities of the ports that we have. While Marleons is the crossroads, Javiksholm is the door. Think of all the ships and cargo that passed through Windholm, Valonbray, and Javiksholm while Valdis was in power.

We must take Aedin Redsword out of power.

Here is my suggestion:

We take the Duchy of Javiksholm, and we partition it. We can split it up between two of the king's most loyal vassals, Earls Stonehand and Doomseeker. The city of Javiksholm itself will be a free city, it can be ruled by a council of the merchant princes. Merchant princes know how to take care of themselves and their own, we can count on them to make sure they bring in a profit, without losing too much to the foreigners. The income we can make from Javiksholm can only be realized if it is made a free city.

Marleons' potential can still be realized with Duke Aelfwine is in power. We weaken the Duchy of Marleons by reducing it to two counties, Talon and Marleons. When we reduce his duchy, Duke Aelfwine will become more and more scared. As his fear increases, he will be trying to reach out to all of his friends, and he will complain to the king himself about his reduced position. His friends will start to leave him as his paranoia rises, and soon, Aelfwine will commit political suicide by lashing out at his neighbors. The moment he does that, we will strike on him and be able to take his position away from him without harsh repercussions.

Both cities' potentials are realized, and the two most dangerous vassals will be removed from power."
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Slopsen
Knight
Slopsen


Posts : 918
Join date : 2011-10-16

IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 1:09 pm

Merzinas felt encouraged enough after Aranor spoke to stand up and add his own voice:

"The Jatu lands are a massive and expansive opportunity. Why not make the realm of the horselord's Pendors breeding ground. Breed ourselves there the greatest steeds and strongest beasts. War horses are expensive monsters, they require more food than any other living thing. If we did not settle that frankly inhospitable land, and instead used it to fuel a gargantuan supply of chargers, destriers and Coursers, we could increase our military power by thousands, how many more thousands of super heavy cavalry could be made from this huge land?

The Veccavians cannot do this. No one Pendorian can do this, no one order can do it fairly. I would propose another hub of Pendor to be created, a new city, on the Talon March peninsular. There is ample wood to do this, the Veccavians do not need help to cut down trees, they could build this new great city, and then, every order sends horse breeders to start breeding great quantities for the steeds they each need. Trusted D'shar who will not engage in feuds can be sent to do this. Every lord of the realm can send there own representatives to create there own prized beasts, a melting pot of every style of fighting, person and people in that one point, uniting the people, giving the lords a sense of control, the orders a sense of co-operation and the people a sense of hope.

There is one last point in that land. Whilst the city would be built, the plains would have to be constantly traversed by the breeders to feed the herds of horses. Banditry would occur, people would get lost in an unknown land, lose livestock and lives. Only one people ever lived there successfully: the Jatu. There are still mercenaries everywhere, the ones who ran away, the ones to turned to civilisation. The insane raiding rapists were exterminated long ago, letting the vestiges of such a powerful force fade from the service of the kingdom would be madness.

Not all would blindly fight as rabid dogs, Jatu warlords hired themselves as mercenaries, fighting for kings, and ours. Why not create a council of the surviving Jatu Warlords, the ones who fought for Mordred, the ones who settled down, and bring all their people together to police the Jatu plains. The Jatu can create for themselves the same that the D'shar did. The Jatu become akin to the Windriders. Treating this land as similar to any other would be foolish, letting it be wasted is idiotic.

I propose then a new city; "Jatu" after the province, as was Ravenstern and Sarleon."


Last edited by DrSane on Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Laisha
Knight
Laisha


Posts : 258
Join date : 2011-11-24
Age : 34
Location : Pennsylvania, United States

IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 1:41 pm

Laisha, who generally hated when knights engaged in politicking, found herself perk up as the knights of the Dawn spoke. For the first time that meeting, she had heard words that didn't seem driven by self-interest. Not purely, at any rate. While the Dawn would most certainly benefit most from Sir Aranor's suggestions, left unchecked, the situation in the west could easily deteriorate rapidly and threaten the peace. She stayed silent, but nodded along as both men spoke, only hesitating when Merzinas mentioned the Jatu.
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Sir Aranor
Grandmaster
Sir Aranor


Posts : 1918
Join date : 2011-08-20
Age : 29

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 2:01 pm

Aranor looked at Merzinas

"he's so young.." Aranor thought.

"We need not deal with the warlords. The warlords of the Jatu have not distinguished themselves honorably, except for warlord Zulkar, and barely for him. The Noldor would not appreciate that action, considering their feud. There are no warlords left, to my knowledge at least. But, let's not get off-track, we can discuss the steppe plains later, now we need to vote for the free city."
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Kamos
Grandmaster
Kamos


Posts : 631
Join date : 2011-08-19
Location : Shapeshte

IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 5:08 pm

Sir Kamos finally stands up from his seat waving down Isabel and waiting for his moment to speak.

Fellow Knights I have my own counter proposition that I have mapped out.

He calmly unfurls a map much like the one presented earlier.

Spoiler:
(Circles indicate a Duchy, yes I missed a few. Lines are the Province.)

Crossing his arms he gazed at the men and women in the room around him his eyes washing over each one.

First and foremost what we are here to do is throw out with the old traditions and make Pendor whole. To make it act as one and it's peoples to rely on each other. To trust in each other. I feel the focus here has become screwed in poor directions among our own Orders concerns.

Looking down at the map he continued.

Now please allow me to continue. pausing and placing his finger on Marleons

First and foremost I would discuss Marleons. I support the idea that it be considered a Province free Duchy. It lies on a valuable trade route and it's leader is clearly somewhat on edge. Relieving some of the pressure off of him may make him step down and placating him with minor lands may make him feel welcomed to Pendor. Alternatively he will use the money to raise forces from Brigands, Rogues and Mercenaries giving us one target to eliminate.

His finger glided over to Singal.

Next I would bring forth Singal. Currently they operate fine and successfully as an independent city. I would not see this turned away and would propose including the Gulf of Rela as a part of their territory giving them access to a port for greater trade probabilities.

His finger glided to the Noldor Forests.

It should go without saying that we should not be so presumptuous to include such land as a part of Pendor. In time they may be considered trusted friends or vicious enemies but for now we have an amiable peace and should respect their boundaries with only approved mission by both the Crown and Noldor traversing the forests.

He stood back up straight and took a deep breath crossing his arms once again.

Now on to the more major provinces with those out of the way.

Starting with Laria. Currently the Steppes have the potential for growth with proper encouragement. It won't be easy however and the Duchy itself needs to be focused. The Steppes will become a part of Laria with their surrounding lands. To help further the colonization efforts Calendian County should be shifted to Laria in order to raise money for the efforts.

Next I'll move to my homeland in the North. Ravenstern should be partitioned between the more submissive West and the more tenacious East.
In the West they can support themselves from farmland and mining. In addition in order to give them access to sea trade I propose the Duchy of Windholm become a part of Westerern Ravenstern. With Ravenstern so recently pacified and the Duchy of Senderfall given control over the East-West trade route they should welcome the change.
In Eastern Ravenstern what I hope to achieve is making them dependent on import and trade from other provinces. We must break their stubbornness and clinging to the past and ensure they become well acclimated to being a part of Pendor. Furthermore by endowing the West so greatly it limits the position of support should they try and resist the changes.

Now for out East South of Windholm. The Duchies of Javiksholm, Valonbray and Nal Shar should be merged into one province. They need only control the more lush coastal regions and export goods from all over Pendor. This focus on a Western trade province as well as the mixing of Fierdvain and D'Shar peoples should further help integrate Pendor into their culture.
I know their are concerns about the Duchy of Valonbray. Such activities cannot be condoned nor the people who support them be backed by Pendor. Still I see no reason to dissolve to Duchy into a free city.

Looking to the South we reach the lands of the D'Shar. Even before the unification the Southern Steppes weren't exactly the most centralized place. It's more developed than the Jatu Steppes but has a ways to go before then. That's why those regions are included together. Their focus should be the development of the region and being in such close proximity the the trades of the West and Singal with the option for port out West gives them a great opportunity for improvement.

Next I'll address the form Empire lands. They will be losing several counties during these transitions but the sacrifice must be taken for the good of all Pendor. The developments of Singal and Laria, I will reach the topic of the Crownlands shortly. At the core their primary three Duchies stand strong and need a common leader to fight the incursions of the Snake Cult. They still easily hold their most important lands.

At this point his demeanor changes, he hardens yet his eyes glisten with the fires of hope and dreams. He voice is booming and confidant as he raises his hands out to the sides as if wanting to embrace the whole room or even the whole world. His back arches and his chest juts forward but in all this his eyes never leave the crowd around him. He doesn;t seem to be seeing the individual however.

Finally I reach the Cronwlands. As you may have noticed the Crownlands compose the heart of Pendor including many key strategic and economic strongpoints. As I have said many times Pendor must stand strong and grow and to do this she needs a strong heart. A core at which all peoples come together to become one. All roads must lead to Sarleon and the people of Pendor must be binded together by this legacy, by this legendary feat, and must become the beacon of hope. I know how it might appear to be. Those are impressive lands for the Duch of Sarleon to hold but it must be so for the strength of all Pendor. Not the Griffons, not the Dukes, nor any other orders. For the Kings of Pendors past, present and future. For the peoples of Pendor. And for the indomitable will to band together and grow as one.

His hand come back down to rest and the table and his voices quiets and his stares intently at the map.
We will be a family that cannot be destroyed.
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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar


Posts : 4142
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 36
Location : Germany

IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 8:58 pm

Iskar had quietly listened to everything that had been said. When Merzinas spoke he furrowed his brow, but the expression wore off quickly. After Sir Kamos had finished, he rose again to speak.

Firstly, I'd like to remind all those here in general and Lady Tenorio in particular about the nature of nobles. The only accepted recompensation for a duchy is a duchy. By stripping a lord of his duchy and giving him anything below that you will make him your enemy. And certainly the crown has no particular need for enemies.

Secondly, he went on, addressing Merzinas, there seems to be a misconception about the Jatu plains. You mistake them for a desert or a stoney wasteland. There is enough water and the soil has fed the uncountable horses of the Jatu for ages. In fact several villages have sprung up around and in the mediate vicinity of the numerous castles we built there recently. Furthermore the war orphans and other homeless people have been integrated into the settlements of the Veccavi newdwellers on the Talon peninsula already some time ago. There will be no danger of the population vanishing after a generation.

Thirdly, he turned to Aranor, you make some valid points there about Javiksholm and Marleons. Only one of them seems to be flawed. As you might have read in the famous book "The Lord" by Niclas MacIavel, one should either treat people with friendliness or harm them with a great and final blow, because they will take revenge for small injuries, but cannot do so after a lethal blow. Reducing Aelfwine's duchy to mere two counties is an insult that does not damage his power sufficiently, so he might soon go into open rebellion, and who knows what disgruntled little nobles and lordlings would join him then. No, he must be taken care of in a more silent manner. But let us discuss this later. In general I find myself supporting your ideas about Javiksholm, especially since Duke Aedin's hold on this ducal throne is the weakest in all the kingdom due to the Red Dawn war.

Now, fourthly, Sir Kamos, let me address your proposals. While I find parts of them well thought out and helpful, there are aspects I do not really understand. Singal for once, is already an unpredictable issue, and you want to even extend the Shadow's influence to the Gulf of Rela? I strongly object to that.
The smaller duchies of Marleons and Senderfall would only upset the respective dukes while failing to make them harmless. Meanwhile the duchy of Laria seems overly big. The lands you mean to include in it have grown very productive in the past years and concentrating them in a single duchy would certainly disrupt the balance of power in the east.
Now for your idea of what you call "crownlands". You claimed to bring forth a suggestion for the best of the realm, implicitly complaining that so far only selfish interests had been followed. Be the latter true or false, you seem to thwart your own intentions here. "Crownland" is all of Pendor, held by the loyal subjects of his majesty. Therefore I see no proper motivation for this large and powerful duchy under the control of your order other than your own order's political interests.
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Psychozoa
Knight
Psychozoa


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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 9:46 pm

Jareth looked at his Grandmaster, he was as well thinking about a reply. He knew that he would say something but it might be already to late.
So Jareth stood up to address Sir Kamos.


"Sir Kamos thank you for your proposal, do assume correctly that this stands for your Order or do we have to expect more proposals like this from members of the Griffon?"

Jareth made a pause and looked around the room.

"I think everyone in this room underestimates the power of the Snake Cult, and I mean their military and economic power. By reducing the Empire to 3 Duchies you risk the whole Southeast of Pendor to fall to the Cult. And Furthermore you offer them a Safe port to land at the Gulf of Rela, the Shadow controlling Singal is not under Control and you offer him a partner who willingly will use his shores in the exchange for money and the demise of Pendor. Through this the whole south of pendor will be under control of the Snake."

Jareth let the power of his words linger in the air for some time.

"At last I want to address Janos, I know Sir Mitchell the grandmaster of the Immortals is not here to Speak for the City but I cannot let this go unnoticed. What is a City at the shores worth without control over the water? You want to strip Janos of the Gulf of Rela. All tradeships headed for Janos will be looted by the shadow before they reach the City.
It is not for the good of the Realm to give the Shadow a Port, contact to the Snake Cult and control over one of the greatest Citys in Pendor."

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Psychozoa
Knight
Psychozoa


Posts : 742
Join date : 2011-09-06
Age : 37
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 9:50 pm

Jareth quickly stood up again as if he forgot something.

"My apologies to bother you again, I think we should start with the Vote before continuing with the matter."

Jareth sat down again and started to scribble something on a piece of paper which he gave to a servant.
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Kamos
Grandmaster
Kamos


Posts : 631
Join date : 2011-08-19
Location : Shapeshte

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 10:17 pm

Sir Kamos listened intently waiting for his time to respond. He displayed no notable reactions to the response.

I must admit a degree of ignorance towards Singal. I've heard but mere rumor of this Shadow and now the town as being very successful from a mercantile viewpoint. I merely mean to bolster this strength and set to formidable merchants of Singal upon the world in the name of Pendor. Surely with the right handling of this port could prevent such events? As I do understand certain reports from Singal it would not be Snakes to worry about from that area.

As for the Duchies of Senderfall and Marleons they lie on quite popular trade routes so it's hardly as if their lands will be without worth. What are tracts of land compared to the wealth that comes through them? With capable land I suspect they will be placated or would have been insatiable anyways. The fact that they are still capable is testament to the fact they are not necessarily being given a bad deal. And only Marleons will be an independent of the two anyways. But... I am not without my flexiblity. Perhaps the Isenfeld hills could be given the the Duchy of Marleons to shrink Laria's and further aid the Dukes mind. As for Senderfall the Lone Coast or Icemirror Mountains seem like likely options.

For Laria? I can understand your point well enough but as productive as these lands are they need a caretaker and the lands to the North need a dependance on the rest of Pendor. Marleons is not likely to be trusted and the Northern lands need to learn to be a part of Pendor, not just Ravenstern. Giving them land that can be adapted to farming will not help that. So for now Laria will act as a caretaker likely until a new Duchy can be formed. Perhaps given to a second son of Laria or a hero of Pendor, that will be many years down the line.

And as for the final point the Crownland will be the province most directly controlled by the King where others such as in the former Empire will likely require a localized Provincial leader. Sarleon itself will serve as a melting pot for all Pendor to gather and become one even if it may take time. I suspected that it would be seen as a power grab but quite frankly we are the King men and hope to keep the Kings peace, little more. We are but a mere extension of his will and I merely suggest these lines to him with my intention should he accept. We do not follow ideologies or beliefs beyond the Kings.

Turning to face Jareth in particular.

The former Empire is a part of Pendor now. Has not the Province already received aid from outside it boundaries as it is? We stand together as it should be. We must strengthen Pendor throughout though this will undoubtedly mean some hardships.
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Slopsen
Knight
Slopsen


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Join date : 2011-10-16

IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 10:22 pm

Merzinas nods his head at his grandmaster requests focus to the task at hand re purposing the duchies of the Kingdom and sits down.


Last edited by DrSane on Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Marcus the Shadow Fighter
Grandmaster
Marcus the Shadow Fighter


Posts : 1148
Join date : 2011-08-20
Location : A windy cavern somewhere near Helsinki

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 10:32 pm

"Before we vote, I'd like to raise on more point to be discussed after it has been concluded," Marcus said in a voice that came as close to being fervent as it could with him.

"The Shadow. Why do we not simply remove the man from his position? We have all the assets necessary, and although we have put the fellow under our thumbs, he is slicker than a snake. And if he indeed does engage in dealings with the Snake Cult, he will likely be corrupted. Few remain uncorrupted after dealings with the wretched creatures. Anyhow, what are we going to do with the fellow? I see two options unfold before us - use him or capture him. As for capturing - we have the scorpion assassins, and information of his whereabouts can be bought - or simply taken - quite easily," he continued, casting a last glance at Sir Jareth.

Abruptly the Griffin Grandmaster spoke. Marcus listened closely, and the words had already formed in his mouth as he spoke.

"You misunderstand his points, I believe - you are reducing their power, effectively lowering their relations to our dear King," he said without a hint of sarcasm in his voice.

"As for hardships - you know nothing about hardships, if I may be so blunt, Kamos. You were not at Stormcliff Clove, where the seas were marred with the blood of the Veccavi, or in the very city of Cez where the Snakes spilled the blood of our very citizens, killing and raping where they could as they rushed through the city. And let me tell you this - the Snake Cult is a very well lead army, full of fanatical soldiers and backed up by nearly endless funds. We stand no chance with the duchies you propose. They did double the harm with half the soldiers the Veccavi had."

He moistened his lips as he prepared to speak his final words.

"Hardships, Kamos? They are not neces--"

Abruptly the fanatical dawnite cut him off with his screaming, and Marcus was forced to gulp his words before settling his eyes to glare at the fellow in silence. He felt his glance pass by him as he was about to finish, and as he threw the final tantrum in the air, Marcus was ready with his response.

"Your worry is heart-warming, but unnecessary. These 'meagre homes' are, in fact, prospering villages with a healthy population. The Silvermists have taken care of this, as I understand, so perhaps you might direct your questions at them instead."


At this rate the vote would be delayed greatly. He frowned slightly; he came very close to enjoying this, but the whole thing was too serious to be laughed at.

"He is forgiven, of course," he added quietly.

- taken out since the original post by Merzinas was removed - ~Iskar
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Tubby McChubbles
Grandmaster
Tubby McChubbles


Posts : 892
Join date : 2011-11-16

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 11:07 pm

Lucius finally stood up to speak, glancing around the room.

Gentlemen, it appears that a number of you have failed to grasp a simple fact concerning corruption of lords and dukes. You claim that the removal of individual lords will somehow create a duchy that is unswervingly loyal to our king. A man can most certainly not control a city on his own, and you will find that large numbers of his subordinates and other leading men in the duchy will be equally corrupt. One of the key foundations of a free city is that it is left to its own devices. How do you see that turning out in a duchy rife with corruption? Do you not see Singal, home of slavers for decades, now controlled by this "shadow" as a result of its status?

Surely the best free city would be one of proven loyalty, where the lords, merchants and people all pay respect to our sovereign? In addition, a coastal city would be the best choice, as it can facilitate trade quickly and efficiently within Pendor and to other lands. However, I can also attest to the threat that the Snake Cult pose to trade, and believe that each coastal duke should be required to pay for protection for his merchant shipping. Indeed, the lack of royal intervention in a free city would force the local lords to pay for defence, making it more efficient than the king's actions.

Now, regarding the provinces of Ravenstern. You wish to prevent revolt in the area by doing the one thing that the locals would revolt for? Encroaching on their land is not something that can be done in a half-measure. Constable, you yourself just spoke of the need for either friendship or destruction to deal with troublesome areas. As I have no wish to see another rebellion, I do not believe that the lands of Ravenstern can be fixed by simply reducing their borders. Change will come slowly, and through replacing lords and men of stature throughout the province, to integrate its people.

Equally, expanding the province of the Empire in the south is a folly, if your objective is to improve defensibility against the Snake Cult. What benefit would come of increasing the borders that the Empire dukes are required to defend? Indeed, as Iskoman and Aventail March already control entrance to one harbour, surely it would benefit unity of defence and trade by reassigning the Gulf of Rela to that duchy? It would also prevent some degree of communication between Cultists and the Shadow, if it occurs.

I confess I am attracted to Sir Kamos' idea of a central province, as it allows administration to be much less varied in its approach, rather than spreading over the coast and heartland.

Lucius turned towards the Legion Grandmaster.

I wholeheartedly agree with removing the Shadow from power in Singal, for all the reasons you speak of.
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Saeros
Voice of the Nobility
Saeros


Posts : 1863
Join date : 2011-08-22
Location : Avernus

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 11:36 pm

"For the moment I have no further proposal to make. I would suggest leaving the discussion about the fate of individual lords and rulers, such as the Shadow, for later. Right now we neet to vote for the provicial borders.

In general, I agree with both the Griffon and the Legion-Silvermist proposal. The vote, however, is not mine to make. It is the grandmasters who have to decide. We will soon have to consider the time for presenting proposals due, and we will have to move on.

Now, concerning the legitimacy issue of this meeting, raised many times today and yesterday. It appears to me that the king, in his wisdom, is testing a new way of ruling. I have read that there are foreign lands where political decisions do not come from the king. Instead, the king appoints a group of trusted and skilled counselors, who gather regularly at his court to decide important matters of state. In these lands, the king acts only as the judge of their proposals, ratifying whatever has been decided by his advisors. This practice seems to be used by very large kingdoms, where the organizational burden is too heavy to be carried by a single person. "
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Psychozoa
Knight
Psychozoa


Posts : 742
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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptyMon Sep 10, 2012 12:58 am

Jareth listened to everything said, but he had only one he wanted to talk to. He remained seated and spoke with a firm voice to Sir Kamos.

"We stand together? The only ones helping us in our War are Silvermists and Immortals. The eventide is occupied in Singal it seems with the Shadow you seem to never heard of. The Gauntlet in Ethos with are the closest don't seem to move a finger in defense of the lands they seem to care for. I can understand why the Dawn is in no position to help us but things like this can happen to every order with beliefs bordering on the fanatical. And now for the Order of the Griffon, you say you life the Kings will, doesn't the King want to defend his lands against an Invasion."

Jareth let his last words Echo through the Hall.

"Were it not for the Silvermists, the Cult would be Sieging Ethos by now."

"If you all insist in crippling the Empire lands then make all the Orders sign a contract to permanently send a portion of their troops to the Southeast under control of the respective Governor."
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Saeros
Voice of the Nobility
Saeros


Posts : 1863
Join date : 2011-08-22
Location : Avernus

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptyMon Sep 10, 2012 1:04 am

"Hm... that is an interesting idea, centurion Meraxes."
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Marcus the Shadow Fighter
Grandmaster
Marcus the Shadow Fighter


Posts : 1148
Join date : 2011-08-20
Location : A windy cavern somewhere near Helsinki

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptyMon Sep 10, 2012 1:06 am

"With all due respect for everyone gathered here," Marcus said with a voice that suggested the exact opposite of what he said, "You cannot dismiss the Snake Cult after an invasion. The Veccavi were secured only because we were lucky enough to ambush and kill their Queen in her very capital city. There must be a balance, men and women, and while I do not require or even want a power gathering to the old Empire lands, it must be strong enough to fend off these attacks and control a portion of the sea to guard it against the Snakes. You might not understand - we have always had this problem - but now that I have the chance to fix this, for the good of Pendor, I will not give it up. And perhaps I should remind you of that we are trying to make Pendor a whole continent, not a copy of the former kingdoms."

He turned to Sir Jareth.

"Only if it is a set amount of troops that they must maintain at all times - otherwise it will do no good on the long term."

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Iskar
Peasant turned Lord
Iskar


Posts : 4142
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 36
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptyMon Sep 10, 2012 2:19 am

I fear we are being carried off again, Iskar interrupted the discussion. Let us first sort out the issue of the free city. As for this I'd like to make a conciliatory suggestion:

Since we have seen that we have no free duchy to recompensate the duke to be expropriated, the declaration of a new free city implies the severe punishment of a lord of the realm. Aelfwine might cause too much trouble in this case. Of Aedin Redsword, however, we do not know the end of the story. If he does not succumb to his wounds from the siege of Javiksholm and is then found guilty by an appropriate court of having forsaken his protective duty towards his subjects against the Red Dawn, then he is a viable target and moreover one that will not cause trouble since his military is beaten and his city has been besieged lately. Sir Aranor has already highlighted the advantages a free merchant city of Javiksholm would offer.

The conciliatory suggestion would be choosing Javiksholm as a free city, if Duke Aedin is found guilty of treason.

I would now like you to pass your votes on this issue. The options presented so far are Marleons, Nal Tar, Ishkoman, Javiksholm as in Sir Aranor's original suggestion, i.e. with removing Aedin Redsword anyway, and the conciliatory suggestion I just named.

He paused for a moment.

The Silvermist votes for the latter.
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Marcus the Shadow Fighter
Grandmaster
Marcus the Shadow Fighter


Posts : 1148
Join date : 2011-08-20
Location : A windy cavern somewhere near Helsinki

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PostSubject: Re: IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event)   IC Scene: The Council Chamber (Provinces / Free City Event) - Page 8 EmptyMon Sep 10, 2012 2:32 am

"My vote goes to Marleons for the reasons the Constable has already stated," Marcus announced.
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