OOC Thread: For This Mission

Well, thank you Mordred, we appreciate our work is liked




IMO the Eventide and Raven Spear should wait until the Veccavi Knights have scattered their formation to charge the cliffs, and then counter-charge them while the Clarion Call and Windriders harass the L-shaped formation. The Shadow Legion should still be their main target.

I thought the reinforcements had not arrived yet?

1000 knights?! Dude, we are so dead. Seriously, we can't win this.

If we live at all, we will have to form a Silvermist-Legion-Eventide coalition or patchwork order just to be able to survive politically, and maybe even economically. We will leave this battlefield as the weakest orders in Pendor, since all others had it easy.

Perhaps if some of us hold them back while we build those anti-cavalry stakes on the ground further East? Or if we retreat to the nearest town and let them siege us there? At night the silvermists can make quite a mess in their camp. We can even kill their commanders, Lethraldiran style.

By the way, this is for all of us:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-Six_Stratagems

The Veccavi Knights aren't a threat, if correclty managed. Are they charging the Eventide or the Silvermists? The Silvermists can any way shoot their horses, while the Clarion call shoot some more of their horses, while the other orders plus Eventide charge to meet them. Then the Clarion Call can perform flanking maneuvers against the Veccavi Knights. Remember, the Veccavi Knights are far worse than the Order Knights. One Order Knight beats three Veccavi Horsemen in melee.


Also, are they charging uphill? This would reduce their potentiality greatly.

Yeah, well, they are on a beach, with sand and burning oil all around. I don't think they can charge at all.
On the other hand, we still need 333,4 order knights to beat *only* their cavalry. Do we have that much?

You know what we need for times like these? Elephants.

The oil isn't a sure thing until now. DiabloDude first has to concede we had enough time to build the makeshift catapults. In that case I can well accept them having 1000 knights before the bombardment started.

Well, yes, actually we have 500 order knights plus the eventide knights and squires.

indeed the plot thickens this one is getting interesting, but then again out of all the missions you guys probably had the toughest one since you're dealing with the main invasion force, so we'll see how this turns out soon enough.

Good Luck and keep it up!

There is a bit of miscommunication here, and that is my fault.

Veccavian "Knights" are not on par with Pendor knights. Probably closer to Ravenstern Horsemen in strength. Which, while still deadly in the numbers present, aren't a match for anyone fielded in a one-on-one fight.

Half of the knights, and dismounted knights present are squires, which are at about the strength of Maiden Cavalry.

You guys are still vastly outnumbered here, with the enemy being commanded by an experienced Veccavian general. A stand-up fight is not impossible to win by any means, but you may find yourself hurting badly at the end of the day.

Note: If you leave the field, it is counted as the event being over, and what is to be done with the army shall be decided in the weeks following.

I have a suggestion: I will change my post so it becomes quite clear that the "catapult" is a very, very makeshift fabrication and I will change the exploding barrels to bursting and spreading burning oil (a weapon which was in fact used in medieval warfare). Thus we get more disorder among the infantry and perhaps the cloth-stone-wooden sticks-projectiles can cause some more confusion. After all the krom and kral slaves won't be easy to command if they are under fire. The casualties due to burning oil and the projectiles would anyway be only up to 200 at most and are thus not a major attrition, but the disorganised infantry would slow down the advance and hinder the knights (to some extent) from attacking.

If that is acceptable for you, DiabloDude, perhaps you could take up the effects in your last post on the Veccavi actions.

Now, that works perfectly well... If you transplant your last post in time up to the current events taking place.

My biggest issue, as I said, is that at the point that you posted that, not enough time had passed to make it physically possible to assemble the catapult.

EDIT: Only a few minutes have passed since my first post, and my most recent one.

Hmm, that is were my problem lies...

I can't believe you can regroup an army of 5000 soldiers, that are at that time scattered over the lower beach near the ships (remember the first wave had been repelled!), in only a few minutes. Moreover they have to take care of the wounded/ make the slightly injured ready for battle again.
It should take about half an hour I guess.

As we really only have to attach some poles and planks to a carriage (we are not building a real siege engine, just something to throw some things down the cliffs) this should be enough time.

This is true also. Perhaps I had the Veccavian army being down to being in a better state then they actually were- the problems of taking charge half way through an event.

However, it can be assumed that the wounded who could not fight are not in formation, and are currently out of the battle, with a small number of Veccavians treating them while the army marches.

The current state of the battlefield is this, as I understand it:

The field in front of the main Pendor army is on fire.

The north flank is guarded by a force of Eventide and Shadow Legion mounted knights.

The cliffs are held by Silvermists who are putting on a harrass/firing makeshift siege engines.

The main army is essentially holding their ground, along with the Eventide auxileries and waiting for the Veccavians to come to them through the fire.

The Eventide reaction is really what I'm awaiting before my next post.

Iskar's catapult I think is vindicated, however Caranthir's trebuchet would take hours if not days to assemble. Trebuchets were the most complex and precise examples of medieval engineering, they cannot be built in a few minutes particularly if you have no materials (your weights for example) and no expertise to guide you.

I already told him that and I think he changed it, only forgot to change it at one line.

The ground in front of the phalanx is oiled but not yet set to fire. we would naturally wait until the veccavi advance.
could you include some reference to the veccavi being hit by the barrels and cloth wrapped stones into your last post? That way we can have Azlanek's nice post in and continue with the veccavi a bit more disorganised than before.

PS: sry for being so obstinate on this matter, I really do not want to give you a hard time being our gamemaster (I am quite thankful you are doing this and things are getting on finally). Yet we need every idea we can get to (hopefully) turn the tide in the end.

You might be able to construct one of these, but that would be about the limit. It is basically a mini trebuchet that is man-powered;

Perrier
The perrier is usually the smaller of the two. The initial power is provided by a team of men pulling down on ropes attached to one end. This offsets the weight of the missile in the sling at the other end and levers the arm with such force that the missile is slingshot from the machine. This machine is relatively fast to reset and so has a quick 'rate of fire'.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/markuspalarkus/2719506032/

Iskar wrote:

PS: sry for being so obstinate on this matter, I really do not want to give you a hard time being our gamemaster (I am quite thankful you are doing this and things are getting on finally). Yet we need every idea we can get to (hopefully) turn the tide in the end.

My goal is neither to help you, nor the Veccavian army, simply to play the enemy how I would see them reacting in a real life situation, and rewarding/punishing players for their decisions. That being said, there is going to be a lot of action going on in my next post (No less than five separate events going on in the battle) so I'd rather hold off and just get everything done and accounted for at once.

Quote :

You might be able to construct one of these, but that would be about the limit. It is basically a mini trebuchet that is man-powered;

No, that is a real siege engine. I fear we are not qualified to build one of those. In fact we just use bending flexible poles and the force that is unleashed when they retake their upright position to fling the projectiles down the cliffs. It is not properly "shooting" the things, we just need something to give the projectiles a certain initial velocity, gravity does the rest by accelerating them towards the ground. (I presume gravity is the same in pendor as in the real* world.)

* a dangerous word - do not tell my philosophy professor I used it.

I would like to wait for this whole catapult issue to be completely resolved before making the Eventides next official post. I am still kind of confused. Was it now allowed to fire at the point that it did, or is it assembled now and can start firing soon?

I ''fixed'' my post in regard to the reinforcements. I kind of missed to grasp what it meant to remove MM's last post. Sorry for that.

Also, I would like DD's opinion on the Veccavi archers and their 1000 arrows. Marcus wrote that they hit the hill and a few shields, but I personally cannot see 1000 arrows fired on standing cavalry, doing no damage at all.

In fact, they would do terrible damage, depending on how well armored your horses are.

However, they are meant for disorientation, and not to inflict casualties.

I always consider first volleys to be very inaccurate, as they are typically meant as a range finder.

I'd say casualties from two volleys, against your roughly 100 men (In my understanding, it is roughly 100) will deal 10% casualties, and wound a further 30%.

The effect against your horses is for you to decide.

At the same time, hollywood tends to magnify the damage of an arrow very much. They will wound you, and possibly the wound will get infected, or you can die from blood loss if it hits a major artery, but when armored, arrows will not do significant damage to you to impair you from fighting in wounded.

The 10 or so casualties (Helpful to remember that casualties include men too wounded to fight, not just dead) result from headshots, being hit by several arrows and being dehorsed, having their sword arm rendered useless, etc.


EDIT: That roughly one hundred men includes the Shadow Legion troops present.

Azlanek wrote:

I would like to wait for this whole catapult issue to be completely resolved before making the Eventides next official post. I am still kind of confused. Was it now allowed to fire at the point that it did, or is it assembled now and start firing soon?

I change my post appropriately and Mordred and DiabloDude approved of it the way it is now lined out in my post, that is basically it was allowed to fire.

So, let me get this right.

Just the line of the shadow legion's infantry is (more or less) blocked by flames. The northern flank is neither burning nor prepared to be ignited? I thought the plan was to create a firewall that would block the enemies way in every direction?

And now 1000 mounted troops are charging around 90 of our riders, the only additional forces at our disposal are the 100 auxiliaries guarding the northern Silvermist Rangers. The other 500 Knights from different orders are not there, because they were introduced with MM's post, right?

So if we charge the enemy, every member of the Eventide could hope to slay between 30 and 40 Veccavi knights? Together with the Shadow Legion every knight would still have to kill more than 10 enemies.

Should we hold the line, 1000 knights will crush into us with the full advantage of their charge and will simply break through our line. If they manage to do that, they will simply outflank, surround our remaining forces.

If we retreat (I know, preposterous!) the enemy can simply leave the squeeze of the canyons.

Did I miss anything?

500 mounted troops are charging at you while 500 dismounted knights, squires and horsemen attack the legion that is at the moment holding the line with the ground in front of them oiled but not yet ignited.

But I myself am a bit confused now as the catapults have been given their ok, but we have no reports of the effects yet. I should think that the Veccavian charge would look a bit different with burning oil raining down on them...

Perhaps we should wait for DiabloDude to update his last post (which he originally wrote when not yet approving of the catapults).

EDIT: I reread the latest posts, and Marcus' post makes it quite clear his men oiled the ground in front of all our troops (excluding the Silvermists of course).

I have not read MM's post yet, and am currently winding down from being at work.

400 troops are charging at the 90-odd knights stationed at the north, yes. With a second group of 100 following behind them.

I don't think the ground would have been oiled in front of the northern knights. The main forces I can see, easily, as they should be stationed with the supplies. Perhaps a hasty bit of oil can be poured along the north, but it wouldn't be a continuous line that closed the Veccavians in. Not enough time.

The ground is currently oiled but not lit.

I planned on detailing the affect of the catapults fully in my next post, and I have had extensive talks with Mordred about that. Same with the oil on the ground.


My next post will detail the catapults, the Veccavian charge, and the oil on the ground.

That may not be up until tomorrow though.

Also, the Pendor reinforcements have not arrived yet, no, since MM's last post was ignored.


(Though once more, I have not read his most recent post yet.)

Does that help clear things up a bit?

EDIT: Okay, after reading MM's post, I'm putting things on hold until I can have a long discussion with Mordred. The delay shouldn't last past tomorrow morning, so this isn't going to be a huge pause in things.